I don't think customers should have a say on conditions, just on whether staff can strike or not.
Same should go for all industries.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Same should go for all industries.
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Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
The difference is that not everyone in the country cares about how it is run, I certainly don't anymore, as long as me and mine are fine I don't care about anything else. Will still comment from the side lines like the miserable moaning sod that I am.
But the unions, if your a member of a union then you take an active interest in employment relations, you pay your fees each month so you are invested in it. So when not even 50% of these people vote it really makes me wonder.
I wonder how the unions would do if those members invested the same money into evening classes or similar.
Lost Mango
Allan Nielsen
You pay your fees to have the legal protection and support that the Unions provide, like you pay your taxes which enables there to be free state education and a health Service for you to use (if you so chose). Doesn't mean people are any more invested in the politics of the union than the people who don't vote in general elections.
Have you ever met a union subscriber who would use the phrase "Yeah, of course I can do that boss, right away." or similar?
All but about 3 of those I've met (and I know a lot of teachers) would be more likely to say "fudge that, it's not in my contract."
They're all invested in the politics of unions, that's why they join them.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
What a load of crap! People join unions in the main, to protect and improve working conditions and pay for all members of the workplace. That last line. How the hell would you know? Been to many union meeting then Scara?
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
The is legal protection for employees under government employment law, I have no choice but to pay tax sadly so the paying tax for free education and health does not wash, because we do not get a choice in this, even if we have private health care or our children are in private education we are not entitled to a rebate. If you are a member of a union you have made a conscious effort to part with your money and give it to an organisation set up for employee relations, so when the is a vote to strike due to bad conditions you would expect more then 50% of people to vote even if the proposals did not effect them you would think they would show "solidarity" with those it does effect
Lost Mango
Allan Nielsen
The Union will provide me with legal representation and cover some of the costs is what I meant by legal protection, beyond what I can afford. I have recently seen how a school has basically tried to bully a colleague out based on trumped up charges, knowing he wasn't in a union and would be financially pushed. They also work to protect a lot of those employment rights that are currently enshrined in law - I'm happy for them to do that through representation and negotiation. I don't vote on strike actions etc as I don't agree that that is usually the right way to go.
I have also chosen not to allow the Union to pass on my subscription to a political party.
The comparison with taxes to me is that you pay them each month therefore you have an investment in the use and outcome of those taxes, be it state education or health service or trident or the royal family. You may have choices to be part of a union or to use private health, but you still have an investment into where the taxes go, hence the link to general elections.
And Scara, yes, I and many of my teaching colleagues in many schools did use to say "Yeah, of course I can do that boss, right away" if it was valuable or beneficial to the kids, even if it was beyond our terms. It is only when the boss becomes an arse that the goodwill runs dry.
interestingly, when I worked in non-union employment before becoming a teacher the boss treated people much more crappily. Small sample size admittedly though so probably just a coincidence.
I have also chosen not to allow the Union to pass on my subscription to a political party.
The comparison with taxes to me is that you pay them each month therefore you have an investment in the use and outcome of those taxes, be it state education or health service or trident or the royal family. You may have choices to be part of a union or to use private health, but you still have an investment into where the taxes go, hence the link to general elections.
And Scara, yes, I and many of my teaching colleagues in many schools did use to say "Yeah, of course I can do that boss, right away" if it was valuable or beneficial to the kids, even if it was beyond our terms. It is only when the boss becomes an arse that the goodwill runs dry.
interestingly, when I worked in non-union employment before becoming a teacher the boss treated people much more crappily. Small sample size admittedly though so probably just a coincidence.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Plenty. In fact most.
And your last sentence is nonsense. Unions have a whole spectrum of views. You can think that unions are a good thing without agreeing with the one that you are a member of.
I've met a lot of union members (mainly teachers) and had a lot work for me in the past (now removed from our workforce).
Of those, only 3 would ever go above and beyond their contracted requirements without demanding extra pay or crying off to the nearest trot union rep.
Why would anyone join a union they don't agree with? They'd be far better off using that money to improve themselves and get a job where they didn't feel the need to bully their employer.
I've had more than enough union types work for me to know what they're like. Most are always looking for any technicality by which they can hold you over a barrel and blackmail you into ruining your own business.What a load of crap! People join unions in the main, to protect and improve working conditions and pay for all members of the workplace. That last line. How the hell would you know? Been to many union meeting then Scara?
It was a lot of hard work getting rid of them all, but it was worth it and it's something we're proud of having done at our place.
You get free legal advice and counsel from the government. No need to line some Trot's pockets to get that.
Good on you. Political donation is one of the more disgusting things unions do (and there's plenty ofor competition).
If taxes were optional like union subs then I'd agree with you.
Ignore whether it's good for the kids, as that's a special vocational case.
What if it's just good for the school? Or the business in the private sector? I know from experience that answer is invariably "No"
That company would have ended up struggling to retain staff and would have had to improve conditions or fail.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
That's not a party it's a wake
I'm a member of a union. I joined one because I have quite a sack happy employer and I look at it as insurance, if I ever get into trouble at work with an accident or I get unfairly treated. I work just the same as I did before I joined a union and I have no problems in my workplace.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that you've been unlucky. I've had loads of people in unions work for me and the vast majority have been hardworking, dedicated and excellent employees. I've had the odd duff one but no more than non-union members.
There could be many reasons for joining a union that you did not agree with the leadership of. Off the top of my head. Unions offer many services to members beyond representation. Many work places only recognise one union, they may view a union that they do not fully agree with to be better than no representation. Whist you might not agree with the leadership, you might have a very good branch. They might want to vote for someone to take the union in the direction they would prefer.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
I was an active union member for a good part of 35 years and a senior manager at an international company. In all that time we had disputes but never any strikes, this was due to both sides trying to reach agreements which both could live with and improve things for the company and staff. I believe the company were good employers and did not want to be pushed into union bashing by Mrs Thatcher. Unions are just the same as our political parties, they end up being run by a lot of opportunist due to the apathy of the general public and bad management breed bad unions.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
well if he were wearing fishnets and knee high boots then I for one would not mind, and rumour has it.......
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
There are many unscrupulous employers out there who would happily take advantage of their workforce, take advantage of goodwill shown by individual employees, who will take shortcuts with safety, or ignore employment law if they can (regardless of what anyone may think of specific laws, they are nonetheless laws). Employers who will discriminate, or use spurious reasons to dismiss staff without following due process. Some of this may be intentional, often it may be down to bad training or insufficient knowledge of employment law on the part of HR or management. Unions play an important role in all these areas (and can often be of help in making employers aware of their obligations thus avoiding punitive fines or other measures). Unions will also advise employees when they do not have a case, when pursing something would be fruitless, when an employer is in the right. It is not all about striking and pay rises.
I am sure there are good and bad union leaders, in the same way there are good and bad employees, and good and bad managers. Unfortunately if you are a good employee working under bad management, leaving your job is not always a feasible option. Being able to call on the expertise of someone who can help improve the situation you are having to deal with can help redress the balance.
I am sure there are good and bad union leaders, in the same way there are good and bad employees, and good and bad managers. Unfortunately if you are a good employee working under bad management, leaving your job is not always a feasible option. Being able to call on the expertise of someone who can help improve the situation you are having to deal with can help redress the balance.
You know that the government has a whole pile of legislation to protect you right?
You'd be surprised just how difficult it is to sack someone. If you employer is "sack happy" then they must have a fetish for bureaucracy, paperwork and legal fees. Half the time it's easier to keep a bad employee than to do the right thing.