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Politics, politics, politics

glasgowspur said:
Judging by the tone of that article and that there is at least another two about brexit and the shambles of British politics, then I'm assuming the good ole U S of A has no problems of its own worth writing about just now.
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Are yes the good old USA, we are the home of the free and the brave and if you do not accept that we will bomb the brick out of you, take what wealth we can find and leave you to pick up the pieces.
 
So much denial going on around here. Evil people of course, do not rise to power in western democracies and any evil doing by them is purely forced on them and if not, down to incompetence. Freaking Incompetence Theorists everywhere.

The Iraq War is nothing to do with,

PNAC's 911 Pearl Harbour and their quest for control of the region's resources,

House of Bush - House of Saud friendship/ business partnership,

Israel,

The 12 year UN sanctions failure to topple Saddam,

Saddam wanting to be paid in Euros instead of Dollars for Iraqi limited oil export allowance.

dingdong Cheney, Allistair Campbell along with Bush and Blair are warmongering filth.

A war is a publicly funded operation with profits privatised, it's a scam on all of us.

Wake up ffs!
 
StephenH said:
So you accept Chilcot unquestionably, but you would question Mi5 and 6.........the US are our allies and friends. Cant see 'you' saying "your on your tod George ...bye"

Just put yourself in Blair's shoes and 'really' think what you would really say to those in the room.

I dont see anybody saying "this intelligence is total rubbish" and why would they, would do they know, they have to rely on others to do their jobs.......and give good information.
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Why not? We didn't follow them into Vietnam.

There are many people on this forum and elsewhere who love to be seen as 'hard-headed realists' who can take 'tough decisions', or are Christopher Hitchens wannabes who enjoy taking a contrarian point of view, or both. You will fall over yourselves to apologise for a qunt like Blair.

"Oh, well in my bullsh1t management job, I had to decide whether to order 3 paper-clips or 4, so I think I can empathise with Tone and the MI6 intelligence."

Whatever.
 
wiziwig said:
So much denial going on around here. Evil people of course, do not rise to power in western democracies and any evil doing by them is purely forced on them and if not, down to incompetence. Freaking Incompetence Theorists everywhere.

The Iraq War is nothing to do with,

PNAC's 911 Pearl Harbour and their quest for control of the region's resources,

House of Bush - House of Saud friendship/ business partnership,

Israel,

The 12 year UN sanctions failure to topple Saddam,

Saddam wanting to be paid in Euros instead of Dollars for Iraqi limited oil export allowance.

dingdong Cheney, Allistair Campbell along with Bush and Blair are warmongering filth.

A war is a publicly funded operation with profits privatised, it's a scam on all of us.

Wake up ffs!
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Shhh...you and your fudging conspiracy theories; don't you know how difficult a decision is was for Tony?
 
the dza said:
Why not? We didn't follow them into Vietnam.

There are many people on this forum and elsewhere who love to be seen as 'hard-headed realists' who can take 'tough decisions', or are Christopher Hitchens wannabes who enjoy taking a contrarian point of view, or both. You will fall over yourselves to apologise for a qunt like Blair.

"Oh, well in my bullsh1t management job, I had to decide whether to order 3 paper-clips or 4, so I think I can empathise with Tone and the MI6 intelligence."

Whatever.
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Realism is overrated I agree!
 
the dza said:
Off the top of my head, they want to raise corporation tax to be more in line with USA/Germany (around 30% iirc), re-instate the 50% tax rate, abandon Osborne's arbitrary deficit reduction targets/timescale (he's done this in light of Brexit), re-nationalise the railways as the contracts for the franchises lapse (and bring that forward if there are break clauses in the contracts), make universities tuition free, protect the NHS from too much private interest, bring forward shovel-ready infrastructure projects (I think they said that they will borrow for such projects, but not borrow to fund day-to-day gov. spending) build more council houses. I think that is centre-left or just left, certainly not far-left or any such nonsense.

Not renewing Trident is probably the most left-wing policy of Corbyn (but it won't necessarily be Labour policy). I'm quite ambivalent about that, though imo it makes sense not to renew it. I don't think it's an extreme policy either, I don't think the SNP are 'far-left' for having that same policy.

The way the media go on, you'd think Corbyn wants to nationalise every corner shop and have us all wearing tweed trousers or whatever.
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Absolutely correct. These are all mainstream left positions, but the fascist private media have positioned Corbyn as some sort of Trotskyist. How is it far leftist, to want a properly funded NHS, government schools and decent levels of welfare? However, Corbyn, or whoever replaces him needs to be more sophisticated. Play the media game, wear the Saville Row suites, just remain true to your principles. What Labour supporters do not want, is another sell out!
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Absolutely correct. These are all mainstream left positions, but the fascist private media have positioned Corbyn as some sort of Trotskyist. How is it far leftist, to want a properly funded NHS, government schools and decent levels of welfare? However, Corbyn, or whoever replaces him needs to be more sophisticated. play the media game, wear the Saville row suites, just remain true to your principles. What Labour supporters do not want, is another sell out!
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We long ago entered an era where only actors got elected. We can only hope that there is a shred of decency in there...sadly, I wouldn't ever bet on that.
 
thfcsteff said:
We long ago entered an era where only actors got elected. We can only hope that there is a shred of decency in there...sadly, I wouldn't ever bet on that.
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and like actors, politicans were makeup, if they were gay or actors I would not mind, you want to google Teresa may and those pictures show she does not need to makeup but the might be two Mrs Mays and maybe I am knocking one out over the wrong one.
 
thfcsteff said:
We long ago entered an era where only actors got elected. We can only hope that there is a shred of decency in there...sadly, I wouldn't ever bet on that.
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Indeed its all teeth whitening, hair care, expensive suits and soundbites, i guess the public get what they deserve in the long run. As for decency i would hazard a guess and say they do not know the meaning of the word.
 
Part of the problem is that the media portray it all as a game, they trivialise everything. Who won, who lost, who's on the way up, who's on the way out. There must be winners and losers. There needs to be a return to analysis of policy, of ideas. Also, the media see themselves as players. They have a pathological need to play the role of political king makers. I have a nearly universal contempt for them and all they represent. Just waiting for that arsehole Murdoch to shuttle off. There will be a few drinks supped in this household on that day, I can tell you.
 
thfcsteff said:
We long ago entered an era where only actors got elected. We can only hope that there is a shred of decency in there...sadly, I wouldn't ever bet on that.
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I would say that most of the MPs (of all stripes) that I have met genuinely cared and went into politics because they wanted to make things better.
 
wiziwig said:
So much denial going on around here. Evil people of course, do not rise to power in western democracies and any evil doing by them is purely forced on them and if not, down to incompetence. Freaking Incompetence Theorists everywhere.

The Iraq War is nothing to do with,

PNAC's 911 Pearl Harbour and their quest for control of the region's resources,

House of Bush - House of Saud friendship/ business partnership,

Israel,

The 12 year UN sanctions failure to topple Saddam,

Saddam wanting to be paid in Euros instead of Dollars for Iraqi limited oil export allowance.

dingdong Cheney, Allistair Campbell along with Bush and Blair are warmongering filth.

A war is a publicly funded operation with profits privatised, it's a scam on all of us.

Wake up ffs!
Click to expand...
And the moon landings were faked, vaccines cause autism and the Martians killed JFK in a cover-up because they'd been anal probing John Lennon and didn't want the world to find their crop circles.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Part of the problem is that the media portray it all as a game, they trivialise everything. Who won, who lost, who's on the way up, who's on the way out. There must be winners and losers. There needs to be a return to analysis of policy, of ideas. Also, the media see themselves as players. They have a pathological need to play the role of political king makers. I have a nearly universal contempt for them and all they represent. Just waiting for that ******** Murdoch to shuttle off. There will be a few drinks supped in this household on that day, I can tell you.
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Re Murdoch Spot on
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Absolutely correct. These are all mainstream left positions, but the fascist private media have positioned Corbyn as some sort of Trotskyist. How is it far leftist, to want a properly funded NHS, government schools and decent levels of welfare? However, Corbyn, or whoever replaces him needs to be more sophisticated. Play the media game, wear the Saville Row suites, just remain true to your principles. What Labour supporters do not want, is another sell out!
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Corbyn's poor communication skills and lack of political nowse is the big problem. He cannot convey a message clearly and concisely and that is essential in modern politics/media. His poor political judgement just makes it worse and has given the Tories an easy ride.
 
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