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Politics, politics, politics

parklane1 said:
But the question was IF she had have done ( hypothetically) would you think that the same criteria you mentioned would have been followed by the remain side.
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I don't think the remain side is as fixated on Europe as the hardcore leavers. Most Conservative remainers have little affection for the EU but see it as the lesser of two evils. I think that if they had won, they would have sought to move on from the referendum pretty quickly and would not have been particularly bothered about which side people supported in the referendum unless they were still agitating for leave.
 
milo said:
The question is, did he know that there were no WMDs? If there is no evidence that he did know this, then there is not a case to answer. Chilcot does not say that he did know this and mislead parliament.
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Well i and millions of others disagree and we wait and see what will happen. Its war and many thousands died and for some to say " lets move on" is a disgrace ( imo) and does not say a lot for the world we live in.
 
parklane1 said:
Well i and millions of others disagree and we wait and see what will happen. Its war and many thousands died and for some to say " lets move on" is a disgrace ( imo) and does not say a lot for the world we live in.
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Millions disagree but with little evidence to support it.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that Blair did not make mistakes in the lead up and after the Iraq war but if we are talking about action being taken against him, it has to be on the basis of evidence and that is not there.
 
milo said:
Millions disagree but with little evidence to support it.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that Blair did not make mistakes in the lead up and after the Iraq war but if we are talking about action being taken against him, it has to be on the basis of evidence and that is not there.
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I watched the film 'eye in the sky' which was ok. But the hoops they depicted that the military/lawyers and politicos had to jump through was rediculouse! It was fiction, but it, I think showed how protracted and practically impossible any future action will be for anybody to do anything militarily in this country these days.

Blair will be the last PM to take this country into any non NATO conflict!
The checks and balances are of course a good thing, but I'm just a little concerned that thing may have swung to far the other way.
 
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StephenH said:
I watched the film 'eye in the sky' which was ok. But the hoops they depicted that the military/lawyers and politicos had to jump through was rediculouse! It was fiction, but it, I think showed how protracted and practically impossible any future action will be for anybody to do anything militarily in this country these days.

Blair will be the last PM to take this country into any non NATO conflict!
The checks and balance are of course a good thing, but I'm just a little concerned that thing may have swung to far the other way.
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A parliamentary vote is also required now
 
milo said:
A parliamentary vote is also required now
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It was last time?
Blair has been vilified by many because he believed what Mi5/6 told him and what the Attorney General at the time told him.......and once again following the US lead like we always had done?

I doubt I would have differently
 
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milo said:
It has been a Prerogative power in the past but Iraq and the Syria votes have set a precedent that will be very difficult for future governments/Prime Ministers to reverse.
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No leader will ever have the bottle to go for a non NATO conflict in the future. That is too much of a baby out with bath water situation IMHO.

The media carry so much clout with the great unwashed these days it's frightening.
 
StephenH said:
It was last time?
Blair has been vilified by many because he belived what Mi5/6 told him and what the Attorney General at the time told him.......and once again following the US lead like we always had done?

I doubt I would have differently
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People's minds were already made up about Blair before chilcot's report. Chilcot does say that he was too keen to go to war before other options were exhausted and I think this was wrong especially given the lives that were at stake. But there is an element of the benefit of hindsight to all of the criticism directed his way and I genuinely believe he acted in what he believed to be the Country's best interest. Who would be a Prime Minister eh?
 
StephenH said:
It was last time?
Blair has been vilified by many because he belived what Mi5/6 told him and what the Attorney General at the time told him.......and once again following the US lead like we always had done?

I doubt I would have differently
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We didn't go into Vietnam.
 
Robspur12 said:
People's minds were already made up about Blair before chilcot's report. Chilcot does say that he was too keen to go to war before other options were exhausted and I think this was wrong especially given the lives that were at stake. But there is an element of the benefit of hindsight to all of the criticism directed his way and I genuinely believe he acted in what he believed to be the Country's best interest. Who would be a Prime Minister eh?
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I would heartily disagree with that mate. No hindsight for many.
 
I want someone to convince me 'they' would have questioned or gone against what Mi5, Mi6 AND the Attorney General told them as prime minister.
 
StephenH said:
I want someone to convince me 'they' would have questioned or gone against what Mi5, Mi6 AND the Attorney General told them as prime minister.
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Surely it's about being open to all of the evidence, rather than only considering evidence that gives you a pretext for a war that you have already decided to fight no matter what. Chilcot is clear, Blair assured Bush that he would "be with him, whatever" a year before. On that basis, he's not looking at 'dodgy dossiers' objectively.
 
StephenH said:
I want someone to convince me 'they' would have questioned or gone against what Mi5, Mi6 AND the Attorney General told them as prime minister.
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It's incredibly common and happens to the best of us - just search for NASA and "Go fever"

I like to think I'm very good at my job but I've been caught out accepting overly good production figures whilst questioning the low ones.

We're all subject to biases and it's natural to accept evidence that fits our beliefs more readily - it's quite the mental feat to question what backs up our own beliefs.

Failing to do so doesn't make Blair evil or a criminal, it just makes him human.
 
the dza said:
Surely it's about being open to all of the evidence, rather than only considering evidence that gives you a pretext for a war that you have already decided to fight no matter what. Chilcot is clear, Blair assured Bush that he would "be with him, whatever" a year before. On that basis, he's not looking at 'dodgy dossiers' objectively.
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So you accept Chilcot unquestionably, but you would question Mi5 and 6.........the US are our allies and friends. Cant see 'you' saying "your on your tod George ...bye"

Just put yourself in Blair's shoes and 'really' think what you would really say to those in the room.

I dont see anybody saying "this intelligence is total rubbish" and why would they, would do they know, they have to rely on others to do their jobs.......and give good information.
 
Post 9/11, world baying for blood and the end result killing Mr Hussein, that must have given Blair a stiff one before any evidence.

How many people hand on heart did not celebrate that Iraqi loon hanging from the Gallows?
 
Robspur12 said:
People's minds were already made up about Blair before chilcot's report. Chilcot does say that he was too keen to go to war before other options were exhausted and I think this was wrong especially given the lives that were at stake. But there is an element of the benefit of hindsight to all of the criticism directed his way and I genuinely believe he acted in what he believed to be the Country's best interest. Who would be a Prime Minister eh?
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You are right about that, they were millions who did not fall for Blair's flimflam and ( i believe GHod is on my side rhetoric) and thought he was lying through his teeth and taking us to WAR on a lie. We/they did not need a Chilcot inquiry to know it was because he wanted to climb up bush's arse and also what he would get out of it for doing so.
 
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