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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Silly McSilly Face said:
The majority of MI5's and counter terror police work is nothing to do with the IRA, nothing to do with state actors like Russia, China, Iran.
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Someone came out from MI5 in the last year and said the biggest threat to this country is China and Russia, so I imagine its more your opinion that fact TBH.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
I think in many parts thats an over played narrative based on extremism in religious views rather than cultural views, which happens in all religions BTW.

I grew up in a massively multicultural upbringing amongst Turkish, West Indian, Bangla, Pakistani and as a community it worked well, loads of community activities, loads of integration, many of those people although loyal to their roots seeing themselves as British.

People often don't want to accept that in many places multiculturalism has been a success, but it has and its evident in food, music, art, sport and in many communities around the country
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100,% this I grew up in Tottenham & Wood Green I had friends from all races & religions & they were some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Guess what not once was I called a white clam by anyone from an ethnic background. Unlike them who had to put up with vile crap.
 
kb 1984 said:
100,% this I grew up in Tottenham & Wood Green I had friends from all races & religions & they were some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Guess what not once was I called a white clam by anyone from an ethnic background. Unlike them who had to put up with vile crap.
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And I will be frank, I have walked in South London and been called honky, but I don't then cast a wide net on South London as some anti white "Ghetto"...........you take some things as anecdotal and treat everyone else as you take them,

Some of the best times of my life have been in mixed ethnicity surroundings
 
kb 1984 said:
100,% this I grew up in Tottenham & Wood Green I had friends from all races & religions & they were some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Guess what not once was I called a white clam by anyone from an ethnic background. Unlike them who had to put up with vile crap.
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Im not sure my whiteness has ever been commented on. Well except being reprimanded 'put on some sun cream you pastey gringo' when in south america. Its our privilege to never ever really have to consider stuff like our race, because of structural inequalities we benefit from. There's no zero sum game trying to change that and give everyone that privilege though, it just improves the world.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Im not sure my whiteness has ever been commented on. Well except being reprimanded 'put on some sun cream you pastey gringo' when in south america. Its our privilege to never ever really have to consider stuff like our race, because of structural inequalities we benefit from. There's no zero sum game trying to change that and give everyone that privilege though, it just improves the world.
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I like the exploration of change and what multiculturalism brings with that, thats why I work in travel.

It's not perfect, buts it's better than going to Spain demanding Ham Egg and Chips
 
Grays_1890 said:
I like the exploration of change and what multiculturalism brings with that, thats why I work in travel.

It's not perfect, buts it's better than going to Spain demanding Ham Egg and Chips
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It massively improves the gene pool too. I mean, have you ever been to places without migration and seen the state of the locals. Habsburg chins all round, and that's about the best that can be said of them.
 
Gazza said:
I like how you said modern history … throughout the ages I would hedge a bet it would be religion roughly at 100million from what I have read.
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No. I've the last 150 years it has been over 100 million and the majority were not religious wars. What have you been reading?
 
The biggest cause of death in wars has been communism in the last 150 years. If you go further back the Atlantic slave trade killed more than you could imagine.
 
For you @Gazza

Death tolls from major non-religious wars
Non-religious wars account for most of history's deadliest conflicts, particularly in the 20th century.
World War II (1939–1945): 50 to 85 million deaths, the deadliest conflict in human history. The conflict was primarily driven by political ideologies like fascism and expansionist nationalism.
World War I (1914–1918): Over 15 million deaths, spurred by factors including rising nationalism, imperialism, and complex alliance systems.
Stalin's Reign of Terror (1923–1954): In the Soviet Union, democide (state-sponsored killing) under the anti-religious regime caused 38–55 million deaths.
Mao Zedong's Regime: The communist government of China was responsible for 44.5–77 million deaths through policies like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Mongol Conquests (13th century): Driven by territorial expansion, these conquests killed tens of millions of people.
Death tolls from major religious wars
While deadly, major conflicts with a primary religious motivation pale in comparison to the largest non-religious wars.
Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864): Though infused with Christian ideology by its leader, this was a civil war with complex motives that resulted in 20–70 million deaths.
Thirty Years' War (1618–1648): A brutal conflict in Europe involving both religious and political motives, causing 4–8 million deaths. The war was fought between Protestant and Catholic states but also involved major non-religious political alliances.
The Crusades (1095–1291): These series of religious wars between Christians and Muslims in the Middle East are estimated to have caused 1–3 million deaths.
Historiographical perspective
Many historians caution against assigning simple motivations like "religion" to complex events.
A widely cited analysis of the Encyclopedia of Wars found that out of 1,763 conflicts throughout history, only 123 (less than 7%) had religion as their primary cause.
Many of the deadliest atrocities of the 20th century were driven by political ideologies such as communism and fascism, not religion.
Some scholars argue that equating institutional religion with violence overlooks the devastating cruelty perpetrated by secular institutions, especially in the 20th century.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Someone came out from MI5 in the last year and said the biggest threat to this country is China and Russia, so I imagine its more your opinion that fact TBH.
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The biggest state threat, yes. More MI6's bag that (MI6 = foreign threat, MI5 = internal threat). It 100% isn't my opinion. It is a fact.
 
LutonSpurs said:
For you @Gazza

Death tolls from major non-religious wars
Non-religious wars account for most of history's deadliest conflicts, particularly in the 20th century.
World War II (1939–1945): 50 to 85 million deaths, the deadliest conflict in human history. The conflict was primarily driven by political ideologies like fascism and expansionist nationalism.
World War I (1914–1918): Over 15 million deaths, spurred by factors including rising nationalism, imperialism, and complex alliance systems.
Stalin's Reign of Terror (1923–1954): In the Soviet Union, democide (state-sponsored killing) under the anti-religious regime caused 38–55 million deaths.
Mao Zedong's Regime: The communist government of China was responsible for 44.5–77 million deaths through policies like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
Mongol Conquests (13th century): Driven by territorial expansion, these conquests killed tens of millions of people.
Death tolls from major religious wars
While deadly, major conflicts with a primary religious motivation pale in comparison to the largest non-religious wars.
Taiping Rebellion (1850–1864): Though infused with Christian ideology by its leader, this was a civil war with complex motives that resulted in 20–70 million deaths.
Thirty Years' War (1618–1648): A brutal conflict in Europe involving both religious and political motives, causing 4–8 million deaths. The war was fought between Protestant and Catholic states but also involved major non-religious political alliances.
The Crusades (1095–1291): These series of religious wars between Christians and Muslims in the Middle East are estimated to have caused 1–3 million deaths.
Historiographical perspective
Many historians caution against assigning simple motivations like "religion" to complex events.
A widely cited analysis of the Encyclopedia of Wars found that out of 1,763 conflicts throughout history, only 123 (less than 7%) had religion as their primary cause.
Many of the deadliest atrocities of the 20th century were driven by political ideologies such as communism and fascism, not religion.
Some scholars argue that equating institutional religion with violence overlooks the devastating cruelty perpetrated by secular institutions, especially in the 20th century.
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Bit of a caveat i'd add is that e.g. the technological capability to inflict mass casualties was off the scale in WW1 and 2 compared to e.g. the crusades etc.
 
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