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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
Lads you are having arguments about fiction. Get your brick together.
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Religion does strange things to people.
A lot of people who claim they aren't religious or don't believe in GHod are using the Bible to win arguments.
If you don't believe in GHod or christ then the Bible is a work of fiction.
As I understand it, and forgive me but I've never read the Bible, the whole point of mary and the immaculate conception is that penetration didn't take place, so it wasn't rape. That's the Christian teachings.
If you don't believe in christ then none of it happen and Mary very probably didn't even exist, so no rape.

Weird!
 
glasgowspur said:
Religion does strange things to people.
A lot of people who claim they aren't religious or don't believe in GHod are using the Bible to win arguments.
If you don't believe in GHod or christ then the Bible is a work of fiction.
As I understand it, and forgive me but I've never read the Bible, the whole point of mary and the immaculate conception is that penetration didn't take place, so it wasn't rape. That's the Christian teachings.
If you don't believe in christ then none of it happen and Mary very probably didn't even exist, so no rape.

Weird!
Click to expand...

If thats aimed at me you are wrong, I am point out the sheer hypocrisy of its use in arguments, not using it as my own argument.

My whole point is that you can't use one book as some grift against the others............I was asked for examples I gave them.

To be clear as I always have on here, I think they are both full of sky fairy bu11sh1t.

The issue on here as it is in the wider world, is people can't accept and see they are being grifted on people trying to politicise this country
 
Grays_1890 said:
If thats aimed at me you are wrong, I am point out the sheer hypocrisy of its use in arguments, not using it as my own argument.

My whole point is that you can't use one book as some grift against the others............I was asked for examples I gave them.

To be clear as I always have on here, I think they are both full of sky fairy bu11sh1t.

The issue on here as it is in the wider world, is people can't accept and see they are being grifted on people trying to politicise this country
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It's not directly aimed at anyone, it's a general observation.
I am pretty much the same as you, I don't believe in religion.
It does fascinate me though and I enjoy discussing it with others, especially religious people. However I do find that they become very defensive very quickly.
I would like to understand, and maybe ask the wrong questions in seeking out understanding but all I see is contradiction, confusion and as you point out hypocrisy.
Like many things religion could be a wonderful boon to mankind, if only he didn't fudge it up.
 
glasgowspur said:
It's not directly aimed at anyone, it's a general observation.
I am pretty much the same as you, I don't believe in religion.
It does fascinate me though and I enjoy discussing it with others, especially religious people. However I do find that they become very defensive very quickly.
I would like to understand, and maybe ask the wrong questions in seeking out understanding but all I see is contradiction, confusion and as you point out hypocrisy.
Like many things religion could be a wonderful boon to mankind, if only he didn't fudge it up.
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I am the same mate, I studied it as a bolt on to my sociology degree and it fascinates me, to the point that the Roman Empires does and how religion has formed societies for good and bad.........

My point overall, as an example) if you are cheering on Lozza Fox for finding GHod (in his grift to weaponise the right and punch down on islam) then you really need to realise that Muhammed was not the only ancient nonce if religion, if thats the route you are wanting to go down............
 
glasgowspur said:
Religion does strange things to people.
A lot of people who claim they aren't religious or don't believe in GHod are using the Bible to win arguments.
If you don't believe in GHod or christ then the Bible is a work of fiction.
As I understand it, and forgive me but I've never read the Bible, the whole point of mary and the immaculate conception is that penetration didn't take place, so it wasn't rape. That's the Christian teachings.
If you don't believe in christ then none of it happen and Mary very probably didn't even exist, so no rape.

Weird!
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with how Jesus was conceived. The dogma of the immaculate conception is that Mary, from the moment of her conception in her mother's (St Anne) womb, was preserved free from the stain of original sin, making her an immaculate vessel for Jesus to be carried in.

Doesn't have anything to do with Jesus's own creation, the 'virgin' birth or what Archangel Gabriel did to Mary, with or without her consent.

edit: Sorry @glasgowspur - that reads as aggressively patronising but wasn't meant as so.
 
Lost Mango said:
Nothing to do with how Jesus was conceived. The dogma of the immaculate conception is that Mary, from the moment of her conception in her mother's (St Anne) womb, was preserved free from the stain of original sin, making her an immaculate vessel for Jesus to be carried in.

Doesn't have anything to do with Jesus's own creation, the 'virgin' birth or what Archangel Gabriel did to Mary, with or without her consent.

edit: Sorry @glasgowspur - that reads as aggressively patronising but wasn't meant as so.
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No bother, it's sometimes difficult to present a case without it appearing aggressive.
I appreciate the answer, as an ignorant atheist I'm here to be enlighten.

So Mary was earmarked by GHod as the bearer of christ from the moment of her conception and kept clear of any "hanky panky", or any dubious person's likely to lead her astray?
 
glasgowspur said:
Religion does strange things to people.
A lot of people who claim they aren't religious or don't believe in GHod are using the Bible to win arguments.
If you don't believe in GHod or christ then the Bible is a work of fiction.
As I understand it, and forgive me but I've never read the Bible, the whole point of mary and the immaculate conception is that penetration didn't take place, so it wasn't rape. That's the Christian teachings.
If you don't believe in christ then none of it happen and Mary very probably didn't even exist, so no rape.

Weird!
Click to expand...
It may be based on some version of events but it is fiction.

If some people find comfort in their beliefs, whatever they may be, then good; have at it. But historically, religion has been a driving force for evil. Religious beliefs have been used as a reason for committing atrocities since time immemorial, and still are to this day. Cherrypicking parts of an ancient creed to justify actions while ignoring the message from the same passages only demonstrates that most piety is skin deep. Religion is both a shield and a weapon to be deployed as needed.

Sure, the urge to believe in a higher power is human nature, I understand that. There is a spiritual void in everyone that needs to be filled. Some worship money, some believe in thetans, others find solace in pretending old dead people were magic. But of all historical religions, the only ones that actually make any sense at all are those that worshipped the sun or nature. Those at least have some basis in reality.
 
glasgowspur said:
No bother, it's sometimes difficult to present a case without it appearing aggressive.
I appreciate the answer, as an ignorant atheist I'm here to be enlighten.

So Mary was earmarked by GHod as the bearer of christ from the moment of her conception and kept clear of any "hanky panky", or any dubious person's likely to lead her astray?
Click to expand...

Also a non-religious type (don't like defining it as atheism as it suggests that theism is the natural state and a-theism is the deviation from the norm but humanity has, from what we can tell, been longer without gods, let alone these Gods, than it has with them so religion is certainly not the default or a necessity) but similar to Grays, am fascinated by the sociology and the development of religions as an academic angle and, as someone of a scientific training mindset, the way it continues to play out in society. I have read the bible (cover to cover - must have been my Irish catholic upbringing and an attempt at penance for some perceived sin) but not sure it really delivered much.
 
Rorschach said:
It may be based on some version of events but it is fiction.

If some people find comfort in their beliefs, whatever they may be, then good; have at it. But historically, religion has been a driving force for evil. Religious beliefs have been used as a reason for committing atrocities since time immemorial, and still are to this day. Cherrypicking parts of an ancient creed to justify actions while ignoring the message from the same passages only demonstrates that most piety is skin deep. Religion is both a shield and a weapon to be deployed as needed.

Sure, the urge to believe in a higher power is human nature, I understand that. There is a spiritual void in everyone that needs to be filled. Some worship money, some believe in thetans, others find solace in pretending old dead people were magic. But of all historical religions, the only ones that actually make any sense at all are those that worshipped the sun or nature. Those at least have some basis in reality.
Click to expand...

This
 
Lost Mango said:
Also a non-religious type (don't like defining it as atheism as it suggests that theism is the natural state and a-theism is the deviation from the norm but humanity has, from what we can tell, been longer without gods, let alone these Gods, than it has with them so religion is certainly not the default or a necessity) but similar to Grays, am fascinated by the sociology and the development of religions as an academic angle and, as someone of a scientific training mindset, the way it continues to play out in society. I have read the bible (cover to cover - must have been my Irish catholic upbringing and an attempt at penance for some perceived sin) but not sure it really delivered much.
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I have tried reading the bible, but it made my head hurt.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Again though, you asked the question, I answered it. Really is as simple as that.

As for your little role playing example, thats not anywhere near what was said or happened, so good try, but you didn't stick the landing for me

2/10
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It pretty much is exactly what was said or happened. "Look at Tommy Robinson" is your answer for a lot of things.
 
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