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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
I know. Sounds like you need a bit of socialism, though you'll never admit it.
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I do need a bit of socialism. We all do. We have a mixed market economy in the UK, capitalism and socialism.

The public sector employs 18% of the UK's workforce and accounts for 44% of GDP.

FYI Reform policy is to nationalise critical infrastructure, e.g. energy and transport. So they also believe in socialism.
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
I do need a bit of socialism. We all do. We have a mixed market economy in the UK, capitalism and socialism.

The public sector employs 18% of the UK's workforce and accounts for 44% of GDP.

FYI Reform policy is to nationalise critical infrastructure, e.g. energy and transport. So they also believe in socialism.
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They like a bit of national socialism. Reform will solve none of the UKs problems. They'll only make them worse.

edit: I do agree with nationalising crucial infrastructure.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
Luton racist.


Exactly.

You. Are. A. Racist.
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Sorry but you are totally wrong here. Maybe you haven’t been on this forum for very long but @LutonSpurs is not a racist by any stretch. Far from it. Your attribution of him as a racist because he’s Muslim and from Luton and by association complicit in the racism you encountered (abhorrent as that was) is in itself racist.
Luton is a decent contributor to this forum who has posted many times about direct and unpleasant racist abuse he and his family have been subject to. He’s not a hypocrite and will call out any racism wherever it occurs. But in current times, despite being British, he and his family and friends are feeling unsafe and threatened by what is going on around us. That should never happen. What kind of country are we that British citizens feel in danger of abuse and even attack because of the way they look? That’s shocking. (Not saying that’s your view, I digressed in my post to generalities).
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Sorry but you are totally wrong here. Maybe you haven’t been on this forum for very long but @LutonSpurs is not a racist by any stretch. Far from it. Your attribution of him as a racist because he’s Muslim and from Luton and by association complicit in the racism you encountered (abhorrent as that was) is in itself racist.
Luton is a decent contributor to this forum who has posted many times about direct and unpleasant racist abuse he and his family have been subject to. He’s not a hypocrite and will call out any racism wherever it occurs. But in current times, despite being British, he and his family and friends are feeling unsafe and threatened by what is going on around us. That should never happen. What kind of country are we that British citizens feel in danger of abuse and even attack because of the way they look? That’s shocking. (Not saying that’s your view, I digressed in my post to generalities).
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Spot on........
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Can you share the link for that study? Genuinely interested as I believed recording of ethnicity was very sporadic in these (and other) cases.
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The data is weak as cat tinkle, it also focuses in on one aspect of abuse which is clearly abhorrent but also washes over the fact that domestic/sexual violence, online, individual and day to day grooming is far more prevalent in White British males.

It's ok being concerned about Grooming gangs, we all are, but if you are calling stuff out, call it out in your own communities or stop with the prejudice painted as "faux" concern. The "more likely to" is a ridiculous way of saying people don't care what's happening in their own demographic as long as there is someone "more likely" to throw shade on..

Where was the uproar when the church recently refused to investigate its own when another of their members was uncovered to have systematically abused youngsters for decades? Maybe I missed that.

People using Telegraph data and headlines to put out statements and anger that mean hard working honest people are being given a hard time in life, Dr's getting abused and people born in this country being made the feel the don't belong here.

It's fudging shameful and something we once stood against as a nation.

Now people stand shoulder to shoulder with a career criminal like Tommy Robinson and don't sense any of Irony whatsoever
 
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Gazza said:
No I was actually making a point about the violent life of Mohammed. Come back to me when you can safely say Tommy Robinson did worse things than this. Goodnight.
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I typically don't even read this thread. Came here to try to get some perspectives on what's been happening in the UK with the march and everything.

Just wanted to weigh in that I think your tone and style of argumentation here is something to reflect on. The conversation seemed to be about Tommy Robinson and what constitutes far right. From there to most of your replies being about or including comments related to Islam. Asking for condemnation about rape gangs, the point about taqiyaa, making a point about the violent life of Mohammed. Several points rather accusatory in style.

Would the conversation have gone in a similar way if a non Muslim had a disagreement with you on Tommy Robinson and questions of what constitutes far right?

Seems to me that a significant amount of your thinking about an individual is based on what religion they belong to?

I've criticised religion quite frequently on here (more in the past). I probably haven't always gotten the balance right myself. But it's certainly possible to criticise religion with a religious person without attributing negative stereotypes of that religion to the person themselves. I hope I haven't gone as far as you have at making that personal about the person I'm disagreeing with.

Would it be fair for Luton to throw out repeated stereotypes about people who dislike religion at you? If they're founded in reality or not, those stereotypes exist. Should any conversation on religion include accusations of those stereotypes applying to you? Is that a useful way to progress conversation?
 
Gazza said:
That won’t get reported like that now will it? It’s already on the BBC that right wing idiots got arrested.
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SpiderSpurs said:
Whatever...
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I get that the main stream media has credibility issues. Main stream media is criticised by most groups, left and right.

But why would either of you trust this twitter post? What gives this twitter user credibility?

If we can't trust the BBC (for the sake of argument), why should we trust "bgatesisapscho"?

And why is the response to claims that this is a falsehood "whatever"/nothing.

If we care about facts, truth, reality, real reporting shouldn't falsehood be taken seriously no matter who they're coming from?
 
braineclipse said:
I typically don't even read this thread. Came here to try to get some perspectives on what's been happening in the UK with the march and everything.

Just wanted to weigh in that I think your tone and style of argumentation here is something to reflect on. The conversation seemed to be about Tommy Robinson and what constitutes far right. From there to most of your replies being about or including comments related to Islam. Asking for condemnation about rape gangs, the point about taqiyaa, making a point about the violent life of Mohammed. Several points rather accusatory in style.

Would the conversation have gone in a similar way if a non Muslim had a disagreement with you on Tommy Robinson and questions of what constitutes far right?

Seems to me that a significant amount of your thinking about an individual is based on what religion they belong to?

I've criticised religion quite frequently on here (more in the past). I probably haven't always gotten the balance right myself. But it's certainly possible to criticise religion with a religious person without attributing negative stereotypes of that religion to the person themselves. I hope I haven't gone as far as you have at making that personal about the person I'm disagreeing with.

Would it be fair for Luton to throw out repeated stereotypes about people who dislike religion at you? If they're founded in reality or not, those stereotypes exist. Should any conversation on religion include accusations of those stereotypes applying to you? Is that a useful way to progress conversation?
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High level of critical thinking skills, evidence-based approach to decision making, dislike of harming children with dangerous thought practices.......

I think he'll cope ;)
 
braineclipse said:
I get that the main stream media has credibility issues. Main stream media is criticised by most groups, left and right.

But why would either of you trust this twitter post? What gives this twitter user credibility?

If we can't trust the BBC (for the sake of argument), why should we trust "bgatesisapscho"?

And why is the response to claims that this is a falsehood "whatever"/nothing.

If we care about facts, truth, reality, real reporting shouldn't falsehood be taken seriously no matter who they're coming from?
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This.....absolutely this
 
Grays_1890 said:
The data is weak as cat tinkle, it also focuses in on one aspect of abuse which is clearly abhorrent but also washes over the fact that domestic/sexual violence, online, individual and day to day grooming is far more prevalent in White British males.

It's ok being concerned about Grooming gangs, we all are, but if you are calling stuff out, call it out in your own communities or stop with the prejudice painted as "faux" concern. The "more likely to" is a ridiculous way of saying people don't care what's happening in their own demographic as long as there is someone "more likely" to throw shade on..

Where was the uproar when the church recently refused to investigate its own when another of their members was uncovered to have systematically abused youngsters for decades? Maybe I missed that.

People using Telegraph data and headlines to put out statements and anger that mean hard working honest people are being given a hard time in life, Dr's getting abused and people born in this country being made the feel the don't belong here.

It's fudging shameful and something we once stood against as a nation.

Now people stand shoulder to shoulder with a career criminal like Tommy Robinson and don't sense any of Irony whatsoever
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Great post. As I said before we need to challenge the rhetoric from the Tommy Robinson's Farage's and Laurence Fox's. In the same way most decent people challenged the islamists.

I hope we have politicians who have the strength to do that AND enough people who have not gone too far down the racist rabbit hole to listen.

The far right are trying to break our country and then put it back together so it matches their own dystopian view of how society should be. They don't really care about us.

Dividing communities and making people fearful, in my experience, makes EVERYONE less safe.
 
Robspur12 said:
Great post. As I said before we need to challenge the rhetoric from the Tommy Robinson's Farage's and Laurence Fox's. In the same way most decent people challenged the islamists.

I hope we have politicians who have the strength to do that AND enough people who have not gone too far down the racist rabbit hole to listen.

The far right are trying to break our country and then put it back together so it matches their own dystopian view of how society should be. They don't really care about us.

Dividing communities and making people fearful, in my experience, makes EVERYONE less safe.
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Exactly this, use the same critical thinking for all society not just those you dislike.

And I'm not having this "how can we deal with our own when:.....rubbish that's spewed as there are millions of peaceful migrants working hard and lawfully in this country.

Maybe we concentrate on dealing with crime wherever it turns up and let people who wanna lose peacefully do so regardless of religion
 
Grays_1890 said:
Exactly this, use the same critical thinking for all society not just those you dislike.

And I'm not having this "how can we deal with our own when:.....rubbish that's spewed as there are millions of peaceful migrants working hard and lawfully in this country.

Maybe we concentrate on dealing with crime wherever it turns up and let people who wanna lose peacefully do so regardless of religion
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We do concentrate on dealing with crime wherever it turns up, and therefore give. that Islamic terrorism is a tier 1 threat to the UK, rated as severe and identified as one of the most significant threats to national security and our citizens lives, with c. 200 active suspected domestic terrorism cells under surveillance at any one time and an acceptance that one of these will eventually slip through the net and lead to significant loss of life like the Manchester bombing these facts freely published by the government do lead to distrust. Maybe they should not publish so much information...
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
We do concentrate on dealing with crime wherever it turns up, and therefore give. that Islamic terrorism is a tier 1 threat to the UK, rated as severe and identified as one of the most significant threats to national security and our citizens lives, with c. 200 active suspected domestic terrorism cells under surveillance at any one time and an acceptance that one of these will eventually slip through the net and lead to significant loss of life like the Manchester bombing these facts freely published by the government do lead to distrust. Maybe they should not publish so much information...
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So then let those that want to live peacefully live their lives rather than clubbing everyone in the same heading and using dangerous rhetoric.

I much more trust my Muslim Dr who saved my life last year as a member of society than many others and she didn't deserved to get racial abused last year, I major part because of said lazy rhetorics that get passed about.

It's disgraceful
 
Grays_1890 said:
So then let those that want to live peacefully live their lives rather than clubbing everyone in the same heading and using dangerous rhetoric.
I much more trust my Muslim Dr who saved my life last year as a member of society than many others and she didn't deserved to get racial abused last year, I major part because of said lazy rhetorics that get passed about.
It's disgraceful
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