Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Silly McSilly Face]

I would guess it means different things to different people, but I would saying being English/British is about politeness, being a nation with liberal values and norms, being a mostly secular nation, a tradition of literary and musical heritage, football/sport.

I think there is anger towards the government for immigration. But also for the asylum seekers themselves. I think most right thinking people just want people who come here to work hard and also to learn and speak the language. It always annoys me when Brits go abroad and make no effort to speak the lingo, just learning the basics like “please” “good afternoon” “thank you” and “can I have the bill please” go a long way with the locals in any country I find. And it’s equally annoying when people come to this country and speak little or poor English.

Britain isn't a secular nation and never has been. In fact, up until the 17th century religious minorities (mostly Catholics) were actively persecuted by Parliament with a variety of laws passed to deny them basic rights.

However, from the 18th century the rights of "non-conformists" have been recognised and protected.

Constitutionally the country isn't officially or legally aligned to a particular religion, largely because there is no written constitution but the Monarch (head of state) is the Govenor and head of The Church of England. The Church have permanent representation in the House of Lords and state schools align to the church of England in terms of ritual prayer and calendar events.

But I wouldn't say secularism or tolerance for religious diversity characterises British culture. You only have to see the recent (within a few hundred years) persecution of Catholics and the still-current issues with sectarian violence particularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland to evidence that.

If i was to think of countries whose values are actively secular i'd think of France and Turkey as two examples...

 

[Jurgen the German]

Britain isn't a secular nation and never has been. In fact, up until the 17th century religious minorities (mostly Catholics) were actively persecuted by Parliament with a variety of laws passed to deny them basic rights.

However, from the 18th century the rights of "non-conformists" have been recognised and protected.

Constitutionally the country isn't officially or legally aligned to a particular religion, largely because there is no written constitution but the Monarch (head of state) is the Govenor and head of The Church of England. The Church have permanent representation in the House of Lords and state schools align to the church of England in terms of ritual prayer and calendar events.

But I wouldn't say secularism or tolerance for religious diversity characterises British culture. You only have to see the recent (within a few hundred years) persecution of Catholics and the still-current issues with sectarian violence particularly in Scotland and Northern Ireland to evidence that.

If i was to think of countries whose values are actively secular i'd think of France and Turkey as two examples...

Maybe not officially as the king is head of the Church of England for example. But unofficially we are not a religious country compared to America or even our European counterparts like Italy.

 

[johnola]

Maybe not officially as the king is head of the Church of England for example. But unofficially we are not a religious country compared to America or even our European counterparts like Italy.

We are a Christian nation where the Churches role has been taken over by government and the link to the past via scripture is gone.

And now people are not reminded every Sunday to be kind and help others. Nor that helping others is rarely letting them do whatever the hell they like.

The modern equivalent to heaven now is a 45 year civil service pension.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Being polite isn't a British value. It's pretty global dude. Liberal values is too broad. How does someone who needs to learn the language know what they have to do to keep the locals from burning stuff down other than break the law is my question.

And language. It takes time to learn. And ability. Not everyone has that.

Being overly polite is a British thing I’d say. Maybe not uniquely British but we are known for being reserved and polite. Liberal values in the sense of how we typically treat women, minorities, our views on equality etc. I honestly don’t know how to answer the part of I highlighted in bold.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Being overly polite is a British thing I’d say. Maybe not uniquely British but we are known for being reserved and polite. Liberal values in the sense of how we typically treat women, minorities, our views on equality etc. I honestly don’t know how to answer the part of I highlighted in bold.

I know. And I wish I knew the answer.

Also if someone comes from a culture that isn't the same as yours. But they don't harm anyone or break any laws I think people should leave them alone.

If you are white and born here and held abhorrent illiberal views and were not polite but didn't break any laws that's fine according to this it seems. It only applies if you look different?

 

[LutonSpurs]

We are a Christian nation where the Churches role has been taken over by government and the link to the past via scripture is gone.

And now people are not reminded every Sunday to be kind and help others. Nor that helping others is rarely letting them do whatever the hell they like.

The modern equivalent to heaven now is a 45 year civil service pension.

This is my country and I'm not Christian. It's a country full of people with varying faiths. There's some semantics about the royals and CofE but that is not a reflection of the values here in my opinion. Most people are agnostic anyway.

 

[johnola]

This is my country and I'm not Christian. It's a country full of people with varying faiths. There's some semantics about the royals and CofE but that is not a reflection of the values here in my opinion. Most people are agnostic anyway

It is not Semantics. The evidence, if you really need any, is built at the centre of every community up and down this island and they are adorned with spires and crosses.

All the key events in people’s lives for 1500 years took place inside them.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It is not Semantics. The evidence, if you really need any, is built at the centre of every community up and down this island and they are adorned with spires and crosses.

All the key events in people’s lives for 1500 years took place inside them.

Historically maybe but I don’t think that reflects religion in the UK today in 2025.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I questioned someone on the Nextdoor app who on a thread about asylum seekers being housed in a local apartment block (they are not), said “But in England traditions are no longer allowed it seems. Generally if English people go to foreign countries they generally abide by the country’s beliefs but our government makes the English people ‘seem’ racist for practising our culture”. (I have done a lot of tidying up on spelling and punctuation!).
So I asked this poster what English traditions are no longer allowed and what are the cultural practices that now seem racist.
The answer I got back was “showing the country’s flag for starters”.
So I did comment that I would never have thought that showing a flag was a particular English tradition or cultural practice but asked in any case who or what has stopped her from doing this. Surprisingly no answer thus far.
If the best example you can come up with is not being allowed to display an English flag, then maybe things aren’t really that bad.

 

[johnola]

Historically maybe but I don’t think that reflects religion in the UK today in 2025.

As I said before it is all political now. And those religions that aren’t in the power want to be and when they are digested hopefully it will all be gone and good riddance.

 

[glasgowspur]

I questioned someone on the Nextdoor app who on a thread about asylum seekers being housed in a local apartment block (they are not), said “But in England traditions are no longer allowed it seems. Generally if English people go to foreign countries they generally abide by the country’s beliefs but our government makes the English people ‘seem’ racist for practising our culture”. (I have done a lot of tidying up on spelling and punctuation!).
So I asked this poster what English traditions are no longer allowed and what are the cultural practices that now seem racist.
The answer I got back was “showing the country’s flag for starters”.
So I did comment that I would never have thought that showing a flag was a particular English tradition or cultural practice but asked in any case who or what has stopped her from doing this. Surprisingly no answer thus far.
If the best example you can come up with is not being allowed to display an English flag, then maybe things aren’t really that bad.

I've made my views on flags clear elsewhere so I'm not defending this person and without all the info and background I'm not judging in either direction.
But there is a stigma with flying a flag, yes it has been hijacked by one side but that doesn't mean anyone flying a flag is a right wing nutter.
That is the perception, I even see it alluded to on here, and I can understand why some people may get the impression that flying the flag is going to be frowned upon. It's a small leap from that to "we can't".
There's a similar scenario up here where the independence movement has captured the Saltire and flying either it or a union Jack automatically labels you.