We can't rely on an assumption that storage will just catch up for a whole country though. Is there anything available that's currently proven on the scale of the UK that could store 5 days worth of power for 75% of our needs? I'm sure storage will improve in the future but until we're nearer that time we need consistent reliable power which nuclear provides. Yes of course it needs maintenance but France didn't experience energy price spikes to the same degree as other countries because of their large nuclear fleet, their fleet is also quite old now I believe.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
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We can't rely on an assumption that storage will just catch up for a whole country though. Is there anything available that's currently proven on the scale of the UK that could store 5 days worth of power for 75% of our needs? I'm sure storage will improve in the future but until we're nearer that time we need consistent reliable power which nuclear provides. Yes of course it needs maintenance but France didn't experience energy price spikes to the same degree as other countries because of their large nuclear fleet, their fleet is also quite old now I believe.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Hislops interview last week said exactly the same, was actually really well talked out. Basically saying that Starmer and Reeves are not great politicians but whats being levelled at them for blame is a total nonsense and there are people clearly ignoring what comes under the blame of the last lot.
To be fair they do need time but all we can judge them on right now is on what's happening and it doesn't look good for them. 2 ministers gone already, negative reactions from business and markets, scrabbling around for growth ideas etc - of course the press and twitter armies are going to comment. Same way we discuss Ange to death every day and analyse every game - it's all we have to go on.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
The growth ideas is a long term issue though, we literally are a country that is at the crossroads of what is next for the UK in terms of industry. There is only so much we can do with the industries we have. TBF to Rishi (and despite people hating him, the London mayor has worked hard to future proof industry in London) he had a good head on his shoulders about future growth but that in itself is going to take time to come to fruition. Other countries have stolen a march on us when it comes to emerging industries, we self harmed with many of our traditional industries that relied on import and export freedoms because of the B word.
The TV Doc What Britain buys and sells in a day gives a massive insight into where we are and why
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LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
There is really very little difference between this Labour government and Theresa May/Cameron governments.
Uk market volatility almost exactly mirrored the same volatility in US and European markets so I think these short term shocks are more to do with "New York coughs and London sneezes". People always point to UK being "worse than others" in terms of impact from these global events, but this always fails to factor in that the UK's economy is significantly based on facilitating global commerce and trade. The UK is the world's largest supplier of offshore finance services (i.e. services supplied to those that are not residing in/registered in the country) and cross-border banking. So when there's a global or regional downturn - we feel the consequences harder.
I think the inflationary and confidence/growth dampening measures introduced in the budget will take time to take hold propery but have been an exacerbating factor in market confidence in the UK and business confidence within the economy
Yeah agreed but on the flipside there's so much opportunity to move into industries of the future that we could potentially compete in - biotech, AI, SMRs, high end engineering etc are all possibilities but we need to move quickly. Europe has barely any tech unicorns for instance but the UK has a few plus some US VCs have set up offices here - should be easy to steal a march. The government has a massive majority to get things done if they're ambitious enough but when we spend 30 years arguing over a runway and £100m on a bat tunnel we're not going anywhere. I mean just our timezone and language gives us an advantage over many countries.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
Yeh I agree, but to the original point about them needing ideas on growth, I agree also but its not just on them solely, this should have been in the planning for 20/30 years previous, you have to be ahead of the curve, I am confident like you we still have opportunity to do so.
But its like anything in government, if its not impacting the next 2/3 years they never did anything because its decisions that win votes they care about. Now the chickens come home (abit like the prison system debacle) and someone's left holding the can
Rorschach
Ricky Villa
Agree. Just to reiterate my own point, existing nuclear should certainly be kept (and maintained) but new nuclear is too expensive and takes so long to roll out that it will certainly be obsolete by the time it happens. It is good for base power so as I say keep that until it can be replaced.
The future grid balancing issues are mostly to do with dispatchable power when renewables drop off, and nuclear cannot be used for that. So what are the dispatchable options? At the moment gas plants, a bad option for multiple reasons. There is some pumped hydro and there are interconnectors. Ultimately though it will be batteries filling the dispatchable power gap. Utility-scale batteries are a thing already, albeit a pricy thing, but they are a perfect fit for this job and getting cheaper all the time. The UK has about 4GW or so already which is a good start. At some point the V2G market will ramp up and that will change the whole energy landscape, IMHO. Every EV owner will be the storage provider. It is a bit away but it is not as far as folks think.
If you are looking for some dark horses, in the energy space then enhanced geothermal is beginning to gain traction, and thermal storage in the storage space IMO. And fusion is just 10 years away I hear.
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Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Somethings definitely concern me about how right of centre they are getting:
- Throwing eyewatering amounts of money at carbon capture fallacies
- Chucking ethics, safety and creative copyright under the bus of AI and big tech
- Reintroducing the (anti) free speech on university campuses bill
Moving ahead with renationalisation of trains and buses is their only real achievement to date. Plus I suppose a little bit more of a sense that they kind of care.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Compared to the current and recent Tory outright xenophobic nonsense they are better in some small measures but otherwise it is blairism on gear
Is that what you think they're doing?
If so, you'll be disappointed. What you call austerity (and everyone else calls being fiscally responsible) is here until the effect of COVID are done (about 2-3 generations).
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Correct.
Yeah so it looks like there's nothing available yet but likely to change, in my view that's not enough for a country to base assumptions on but things move fast so lets see what developments come along in the next couple of years.
Looks like there's further research going on with fusion as well but it's still decades away by the sounds of it, I'll take a look at the other items you mentioned. Would love to invest in some of these growing areas but it's mostly VC / govt / research backed start ups - https://www.theguardian.com/environ...cord-410m-to-support-uk-nuclear-fusion-energy
Thanks
Yeah we need long term planning but politics is too tribal and ideological for that at the moment but there could be common areas e.g. it's pretty obvious that some industries like AI, Robotics, Medical research, Engineering etc are going to continue to do well in the future so we could do things to help these industries grow in the UK. I mean just today there's an AI unicorn in London unveiling more investment (https://www.synthesia.io/post/synthesia-secures-180m-in-series-d-funding), we should be using these companies and their leaders to formulate ideas and start attracting the next big ideas. Europe is wide open for technology companies and the UK is in the lead so far.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
No I agree totally, Londons leading the way in the UK for it, one of Khans achievements (not that he has many). And we could do more again agreed, but we have needed that foresight for a while now.
Just saw this which is a good read - https://www.ft.com/content/8178b984-cf92-4313-8381-d8e2f6fc7fa0
Rorschach
Ricky Villa
Fusion is always 10 years away is the running gag.
There is always new tech, I read about stuff every week. One fantastic idea after the next but we don't need it. We need fast adoption of the tech we have, and we are failing. We need cathedral thinking, as Thunberg famously said.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
There are better ways of being fiscally responsible than starving poor people.
Fusion energy is one of those absolute history changing kind of things - if we manage to sustain and harness a stable fusion reaction it provides almost unlimited energy for up to billions of years.
Stuff like near-light speed space travel suddenly becomes viable for example as you now have the energy to move an object that is becoming super-massive.
But fusion and dark matter technology could also be extremely dangerous.
We know a nuclear blast can effectively destroy a city.
A fusion reaction blast can destroy a whole area of space like a few solar syatens and rip the fabric of space-time apart, forming a blackhole where the epicentre of the explosion was. How do we know this? It's what happens when a star's fusion reaction hits a tipping point and it goes supernova.