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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

thfcsteff said:
I agree wholeheartedly with the preventative approach to healthcare. You are on-point with regards to getting preventative screenings, etc. I believe later on in these exchanges, you've also spoken about the importance of education in these matters, again I agree. I think the final phase has to be both affordability and the adjustment psychologically from fear to taking control. So many people I knoware afraid of doctors/getting routine healthchecks, when it is no different to making sure you maintain (and treat)your vehicle properly. Personally (and this is certainly somewhere I think we might disagree) I'd like to see things such as fitness centre/gym memberships subsidised and made highly affordable and accessible to all. The net result for society can only be good.
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It's why an NHS model doesn't work. Publicly funded healthcare can, but an NHS can't.

The govt can't increase spending massively this year to save money 20 years down the line. Anyone hit with higher taxes with just vote for another party and anyone within 20 years of retirement will tell them to go fudge themselves.

Insurance companies can and regularly do make that sort of investment decision all the time. They can also discourage unhealthy behaviour such as smoking or eating brick food with increased premiums.
 
scaramanga said:
It's why an NHS model doesn't work. Publicly funded healthcare can, but an NHS can't.

The govt can't increase spending massively this year to save money 20 years down the line. Anyone hit with higher taxes with just vote for another party and anyone within 20 years of retirement will tell them to go fudge themselves.

Insurance companies can and regularly do make that sort of investment decision all the time. They can also discourage unhealthy behaviour such as smoking or eating brick food with increased premiums.
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At this point I am totally prepared to accept that I don't have the same grasp on what the NHS has become versus the model I knew versus where it's going. I am certainly open to 'ideals vs reality of where we're actually at' thinking. My idealistic heart will always, always believe in the principles of the NHS, but truthfully, what I want is a model whereby everyone in the country has health insurance. Whatever that model is will be the one I support. I will always support an individual's right to top up their insurance with whatever private provision they want, so long as it is not at the expense of the average person beiong able to receive quality, affordable care.

The 'lifestyle' stuff is trickier, albeit I agree that if you shovel brick food in your mouth, drink, smoke, don't exercise and then expect to be 'healed' you really need to take more responsibility of self. I think the single biggest breakthrough we can make is increasing the support for mental health/joining the dots for people who make awful choices in seeing that heaklthy choices actually make you feel and operate better. I am probably a little 'lemon bowl' than you with regards to how we can approach that as a society, but I'd say we both in the end want the same thing. A healthier society which takes responsibility for itself and in turn, does not deplete the system for those who really need it. On a footnote, I'm sure we'd both agree that people who call the NHS/doctors for every sniffle or cough really need to sort it out!
 
As the economy and market confidence in the UK sinks (at an admittedly slower pace) back to where it was under Truss and Kwarteng. And Rishi Sunak's second prediction in about a year about an opponent's economic policies looks set to be proven right, I think it may start to dawn on some just what a steady hand we had on the wheel which ultimately controls most of our lives. In and amongst all of the chaos of the Johnson government and Covid 19 pandemic, the UK's economic resilience and bounce-back was also evidence of his IMO sterling work....
 
Kompakted said:
As the economy and market confidence in the UK sinks (at an admittedly slower pace) back to where it was under Truss and Kwarteng. And Rishi Sunak's second prediction in about a year about an opponent's economic policies looks set to be proven right, I think it may start to dawn on some just what a steady hand we had on the wheel which ultimately controls most of our lives. In and amongst all of the chaos of the Johnson government and Covid 19 pandemic, the UK's economic resilience and bounce-back was also evidence of his IMO sterling work....
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Sunak got so much right. Unfortunately he got the big one wrong - COVID spending.

We'll be paying for that the rest of our lives - as will out children in all likelihood.
 
scaramanga said:
Sunak got so much right. Unfortunately he got the big one wrong - COVID spending.

We'll be paying for that the rest of our lives - as will out children in all likelihood.
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Disagree. The spending was necessary and not actually harmful for the UK in terms of international confidence as every other country was doing similar.

Uk national debt ratio by the end of 2020 was just under 99% of GDP. It had fallen to 97% by the end of 2023. It's now risen back up to 99%. Growth was predicted to pick up prior to the budget which would have accelerated the debt reduction along with I'm the BoE stepping in to buy debt back as it saw fit.
 
Kompakted said:
Disagree. The spending was necessary and not actually harmful for the UK in terms of international confidence as every other country was doing similar.

Uk national debt ratio by the end of 2020 was just under 99% of GDP. It had fallen to 97% by the end of 2023. It's now risen back up to 99%. Growth was predicted to pick up prior to the budget which would have accelerated the debt reduction along with I'm the BoE stepping in to buy debt back as it saw fit.
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The spending was only necessary if we were closing the economy.

We'd have been far better off just not shutting the whole country down.
 
scaramanga said:
The spending was only necessary if we were closing the economy.

We'd have been far better off just not shutting the whole country down.
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Lockdowns were never part of the UK's pandemic planning. We deviated from the plan because the Chinese locked down Wuhan and the WHO adopted the Chinese response as recommended best practice and so that's what everyone did. The UK were one of the last countries to do so and the media were up in arms and screaming at the government to do it and pointing at China, who are an authoritarian regime where the police beat people in the street for leaving their homes. The Chinese motivation for lock downs was to control the information narrative that they'd lost control of an infectious disease.

One of the biggest questions the covid enquiry must answer was were the government right to deviate from their pandemic planning and follow the WHO advice so blindly.

Back to Sunak, he wasn't in charge of locking down, he could only put in place policies to safeguard the economy from actions of Johnson and Hanrooster and their advisors.
 
Kompakted said:
Lockdowns were never part of the UK's pandemic planning. We deviated from the plan because the Chinese locked down Wuhan and the WHO adopted the Chinese response as recommended best practice and so that's what everyone did. The UK were one of the last countries to do so and the media were up in arms and screaming at the government to do it and pointing at China, who are an authoritarian regime where the police beat people in the street for leaving their homes. The Chinese motivation for lock downs was to control the information narrative that they'd lost control of an infectious disease.

One of the biggest questions the covid enquiry must answer was were the government right to deviate from their pandemic planning and follow the WHO advice so blindly.

Back to Sunak, he wasn't in charge of locking down, he could only put in place policies to safeguard the economy from actions of Johnson and Hanrooster and their advisors.
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That's true, but as Chancellor he can tell them it can't be done financially and walk if they make him.
 
scaramanga said:
That's true, but as Chancellor he can tell them it can't be done financially and walk if they make him.
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By all accounts there was tension between the treasury and the DHSC during Covid. But this concept we get in the public sector where you resign if you don't get everything your own way is a bit pathetic IMO. Challenge should be welcome. In business when you get everyone in a room and there's a challenging debate and you end up somewhere, it's far more likely that you've ended up in the right place. If Sunak had walked during Covid and left the economy to be decimated that would have been unforgivable. Plus, it could be done financially and it was done.
 
Kompakted said:
Lockdowns were never part of the UK's pandemic planning. We deviated from the plan because the Chinese locked down Wuhan and the WHO adopted the Chinese response as recommended best practice and so that's what everyone did. The UK were one of the last countries to do so and the media were up in arms and screaming at the government to do it and pointing at China, who are an authoritarian regime where the police beat people in the street for leaving their homes. The Chinese motivation for lock downs was to control the information narrative that they'd lost control of an infectious disease.

One of the biggest questions the covid enquiry must answer was were the government right to deviate from their pandemic planning and follow the WHO advice so blindly.

Back to Sunak, he wasn't in charge of locking down, he could only put in place policies to safeguard the economy from actions of Johnson and Hanrooster and their advisors.
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We had a pandemic plan until it was deceased under Cameron in 2015.

We had no planning, no plan. We winged it with the biggest winger ever to make public office.

It has cost us decades in our future generations and untold cost/wealth redistribution to their mates.

It’s criminal what they did. Actually it’s treasonous. Im in New York atm and they have recovered. Actually stronger. I was here 10 years ago and the place is transformed, albeit its a lot more expensive. But bloody hell. Compared to London…which was on a par…Here, the streets are clean. Their subway is like brand new. No rubbish anywhere. Even on the tracks.There are literally traffic marshals on every street corner. All in contact with real NYPD if something happens. I’ve never felt so safe in a major city. Its quite incredible what they have achieved even with a corrupt mayor. Right wing Media reports said violent immigrants were everywhere.

Place is spotless. There are homeless but it’s nothing like London. You have folks that come on the train and say im an aspiring singer and if you like me give me a buck or 2. But its not aggressive, a bit annoying on the ear drums.

There was one thing I saw i saw on the first day but I digress.

London is dirty. And its vile compared to Manhattan and its close islands. Khan has done nothing. But then again not every single fudging transaction is taxed at 33% sometimes not including the ubiquitous and tiring tips.
 
The real madness they have here that we dont have yet in London compared to NY is the immigrants dropping off food. Its insane. Yes we do have this in England. But we are 10 years behind. Even in London. 10 years ago in NY folks using electric bikes were commonplace but as a tool. Now its a way of living. Folks just get sandwiches dropped off. Its amazing that someone can make a living dropping off a single burger or sandwich.

People just press an app and it’s delivered. I know we’ve always had this but to see it on this scale is amazing. No one leaves their house/hotel room. Its normal to feel peckish and order a snack. Not a meal like a curry. Just one burger a single taco. And someone will come. There are tens of thousands of these bikes and riders who just come. Maybe…well i am…old but a £5 quid sandwich will cost £12 quid…or in Ny terms 12 dollars and it costs 30 dollars. And if you didn’t tip it right you get blackballed.
 
Kompakted said:
By all accounts there was tension between the treasury and the DHSC during Covid. But this concept we get in the public sector where you resign if you don't get everything your own way is a bit pathetic IMO. Challenge should be welcome. In business when you get everyone in a room and there's a challenging debate and you end up somewhere, it's far more likely that you've ended up in the right place. If Sunak had walked during Covid and left the economy to be decimated that would have been unforgivable. Plus, it could be done financially and it was done.
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I'd argue it couldn't. Generations of debt and a workforce even less keen on working than it was before is a horrible legacy.

Taxation has been driven through the roof to levels we've never seen before and this is all under a supposedly conservative govt.

A better answer would be to leak to the pressure and the public that we don't know if lock downs work or not, but it's academic as we can't afford it.
 
Batspur said:
The real madness they have here that we dont have yet in London compared to NY is the immigrants dropping off food. Its insane. Yes we do have this in England. But we are 10 years behind. Even in London. 10 years ago in NY folks using electric bikes were commonplace but as a tool. Now its a way of living. Folks just get sandwiches dropped off. Its amazing that someone can make a living dropping off a single burger or sandwich.

People just press an app and it’s delivered. I know we’ve always had this but to see it on this scale is amazing. No one leaves their house/hotel room. Its normal to feel peckish and order a snack. Not a meal like a curry. Just one burger a single taco. And someone will come. There are tens of thousands of these bikes and riders who just come. Maybe…well i am…old but a £5 quid sandwich will cost £12 quid…or in Ny terms 12 dollars and it costs 30 dollars. And if you didn’t tip it right you get blackballed.
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You say "nobody leaves their house or hotel" like that's a good thing? Also, Manhattan is only 1/3 of New York proper. And it's the richest and cleanest part. If you go to parts of London it looks spotless and there's no homeless people either. Have a wander into Brooklyn or Queens or the run down suburbs around the city and then come back to me about their pristine holy land they've created...
 
Batspur said:
We had a pandemic plan until it was deceased under Cameron in 2015.

We had no planning, no plan. We winged it with the biggest winger ever to make public office.

It has cost us decades in our future generations and untold cost/wealth redistribution to their mates.

It’s criminal what they did. Actually it’s treasonous. Im in New York atm and they have recovered. Actually stronger. I was here 10 years ago and the place is transformed, albeit its a lot more expensive. But bloody hell. Compared to London…which was on a par…Here, the streets are clean. Their subway is like brand new. No rubbish anywhere. Even on the tracks.There are literally traffic marshals on every street corner. All in contact with real NYPD if something happens. I’ve never felt so safe in a major city. Its quite incredible what they have achieved even with a corrupt mayor. Right wing Media reports said violent immigrants were everywhere.

Place is spotless. There are homeless but it’s nothing like London. You have folks that come on the train and say im an aspiring singer and if you like me give me a buck or 2. But its not aggressive, a bit annoying on the ear drums.

There was one thing I saw i saw on the first day but I digress.

London is dirty. And its vile compared to Manhattan and its close islands. Khan has done nothing. But then again not every single fudging transaction is taxed at 33% sometimes not including the ubiquitous and tiring tips.
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The pandemic plan wasn't deceased under Cameron, thats nonsense. In fact, in 2016, the yeae after you say it was deceased, they actually ran a nationwide multi-agency mock-pandemic drill exercise to test the plans, it was called Operation Cygnus and it led to a significant update to the plans. Interestingly, in the mock exercise, the NHS effectively fell over and ran out of capacity. That never happened during the real pandemic, which shows the value of conducting the exercise and implementing the changes they did.
 
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