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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

johnola said:
Why would they be immune? They are probably the organisations least exposed to competition and are also held up with favourable contracts and poor regulation.
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You can add the rail providers to the list of super efficient private companies, topping the table as most expensive providers in Europe.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Same difference. So Brexit is fine, it is just the Torys are incompetent?
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Fact check.

The Conservative Party campaigned against Brexit largely from an economic pov.

It was the people of the U.K., England really, who chose not to be part of the EU despite the warnings we would be considerably exposed to economic troubles.

It’s this lurch to the right that is completely unwelcome and afaik unforeseen.
 
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K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
You can add the rail providers to the list of super efficient private companies, topping the table as most expensive providers in Europe.
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Owned by Europeans at the moment right? I suppose we will get to improve the legislation and unshackle pension funds to buyback these assets so we can get this stuff back working properly for the good of the U.K.
 
johnola said:
Fact check.

The Conservative Party campaigned against Brexit largely from an economic pov.

It was the people of the U.K., England really, who chose not to be part of the EU despite the warnings we would be considerably exposed to economic troubles.

It’s this lurch to the right that is completely unwelcome and afaik unforeseen.
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Can you provide some evidence beyond just stating "fact check"? I'm just trying to remember who put the amount of money on the bus that would be saved and kindly donated to the NHS, that didn't seem like a Labour initiative.

It seemed like it was David Cameron that initiated the vote, and used rhetoric that is widely right wing based and most of the people who admit they voted to leave, are voters of the conservative party (I appreciate this last point is anecdotal but from my experience it is absolutely true).

It might be my internal bias that makes your statement hard to believe but we've all seen them (Torys) try to make it out like it's a great thing, so it's hard to believe.
 
johnola said:
Fact check.

The Conservative Party campaigned against Brexit largely from an economic pov.

It was the people of the U.K., England really, who chose not to be part of the EU despite the warnings we would be considerably exposed to economic troubles.

It’s this lurch to the right that is completely unwelcome and afaik unforeseen.
Click to expand...

Brexit is the Conservative party inflicting its internal division on the nation. No one cared about the EU 10 years back. Apart from a small minority of weirdos like Reece Mogg or Daniel Hannon. Somehow this mob managed to split the Tory party in two, forcing Cameron to commit to a referendum. What a mistake to make-a! Brexit was delivered by Tories, and inflicted onto the nation by them.

But you're not really replying to my post. We were talking about how the UK has over 10% inflation, Scara was saying its not Brexit its an incompetent Tory party. It is funny how - despite reality staring people in the face - they'll protect this futile, abstract, 'movement'. Which is little more than inflicting trade barriers on the UK.
 
johnola said:
Fact check.

The Conservative Party campaigned against Brexit largely from an economic pov.

It was the people of the U.K., England really, who chose not to be part of the EU despite the warnings we would be considerably exposed to economic troubles.

It’s this lurch to the right that is completely unwelcome and afaik unforeseen.
Click to expand...

Brexit is the Conservative party inflicting its internal division on the nation. No one cared about the EU 10 years back. Apart from a small minority of weirdos like Reece Mogg or Daniel Hannon. Somehow this mob managed to split the Tory party in two, forcing Cameron to commit to a referendum. What a mistake to make-a! Brexit was delivered by Tories, and inflicted onto the nation by them.

But you're not really replying to my post. We were talking about how the UK has over 10% inflation, Scara was saying its not Brexit its an incompetent Tory party. It is funny how - despite reality staring people in the face - they'll protect this futile, abstract, 'movement'. Which is little more than inflicting trade barriers on the UK.
 
johnola said:
Fact check.

The Conservative Party campaigned against Brexit largely from an economic pov.

It was the people of the U.K., England really, who chose not to be part of the EU despite the warnings we would be considerably exposed to economic troubles.

It’s this lurch to the right that is completely unwelcome and afaik unforeseen.
Click to expand...

Brexit is the Conservative party inflicting its internal division on the nation. No one cared about the EU 10 years back. Apart from a small minority of weirdos like Reece Mogg or Daniel Hannon. Somehow this mob managed to split the Tory party in two, forcing Cameron to commit to a referendum. What a mistaka to make-a! Brexit was delivered by Tories, and inflicted onto the nation by them.

But you're not really replying to my post. We were talking about how the UK has over 10% inflation, Scara was saying its not Brexit its an incompetent Tory party. It is funny how - despite reality staring people in the face - they'll protect this futile, abstract, 'movement'. Which is little more than inflicting trade barriers on the UK.

"Fact Check" some people indeed said we'd be exposed to a worse economic outlook. Others, probably like yourself, certainly Scara and idiots like Farage lied or were naive, and said no we'd actually be better off! What a sham!
 
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scaramanga said:
The people he was lying to matter. The fact that he treated an inquiry into whether or not he attended a party with contempt is to be commended.
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He treated an enquiry about whether he lied to Parliament with contempt. The "parties" are the content, the behaviours are the areas of substance.

Do you think behaviour is acceptable for an elected official?

Do you think the contempt he has shown Parliament consistently is acceptable for an official?

Do these behaviours represent (C/c)onservatism to you?
 
scaramanga said:
I absolutely agree. Which is why governments shouldn't be allowed to pick winners.

Bit it's got nothing to do with why services are so poor. You could put every penny given out on friendly contracts back into the public purse and notice no difference to public services.


Yet every private service I can think of is better than its public equivalent.

Healthcare, schools, housing, they're all better than the govt provision.

If politicisation is part of the problem, then why not just remove that from the equation? Allow experts to provide those services completely free of govt control and let the consumer choose the most suitable option. Of course no politician threatening to replace the NHS with a better system will survive a single election - too many people in this country would prefer a brick but nostalgic service instead.
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Oh, I think we are actually very close to agreement here!
Allow the experts to deliver public services within political interference - you should become a civil servant! Because we are expert at delivering public service; at ensuring the service is there for the needs of the people and taking a holistic view.
Irrespective of views on capitalism and market forces, private company cannot prioritise a holistic view ahead of profit - they exist for profit. Nothing wrong with that, except where it's an important national infrastructure service being delivered and operating in a competitive market.
There should be no important services to which cost is the barrier - as a society we should create a decent baseline and also allow private industry to offer better services for those that choose to pay. Similar to how we do with dentistry - although that should be free at point of use for NHS patients imho. Personally I choose to pay three times the price for dentistry, and really like the results. But someone that would prefer to spend that money elsewhere and only receive check ups and essential works should be able to access it.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Brexit is the Conservative party inflicting its internal division on the nation. No one cared about the EU 10 years back. Apart from a small minority of weirdos like Reece Mogg or Daniel Hannon. Somehow this mob managed to split the Tory party in two, forcing Cameron to commit to a referendum. What a mistake to make-a! Brexit was delivered by Tories, and inflicted onto the nation by them.

But you're not really replying to my post. We were talking about how the UK has over 10% inflation, Scara was saying its not Brexit its an incompetent Tory party. It is funny how - despite reality staring people in the face - they'll protect this futile, abstract, 'movement'. Which is little more than inflicting trade barriers on the UK.

"Fact Check" some people indeed said we'd be exposed to a worse economic outlook. Others, probably like yourself, certainly Scara and idiots like Farage lied or were naive, and said no we'd actually be better off! What a sham!
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You are confusing the EU with the eurozone. Turkey has inflation at 50% plus, a member of the EU but outside the eurozone. That was our position.

Since you just called me a liar I’m not interacting with you anymore.
 
johnola said:
You are confusing the EU with the eurozone. Turkey has inflation at 50% plus, a member of the EU but outside the eurozone. That was our position.

Since you just called me a liar I’m not interacting with you anymore.
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Ahhhhh hahahahah. You're a riot. Love you too xxx

Turkey is a candidate nation isn't it, not a full member of the EU. Liar or naive, I think were my words.
 
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We are off to France for Easter, my first time inside the evil empire since we broke free. Hope the lazy frogs have stopped protesting by the time we go there. Off to Brittany.

Planning on doing the tour de france in 2024, starts in Florence finishes in Nice. Hope cav will have got the record by then.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
We are off to France for Easter, my first time inside the evil empire since we broke free. Hope the lazy frogs have stopped protesting by the time we go there. Off to Brittany.

Planning on doing the tour de france in 2024, starts in Florence finishes in Nice. Hope cav will have got the record by then.
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We used to have a home in Brittany, loved it.
 
johnola said:
You are confusing the EU with the eurozone. Turkey has inflation at 50% plus, a member of the EU but outside the eurozone. That was our position.

Since you just called me a liar I’m not interacting with you anymore.
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I think you may be confusing real life with propaganda.
Either that, or we are all living through The Man In The High Castle.
 
johnola said:
Owned by Europeans at the moment right? I suppose we will get to improve the legislation and unshackle pension funds to buyback these assets so we can get this stuff back working properly for the good of the U.K.
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Many, not all, are owned by EU linked operators.
Re: legislation - not under the Tories. Hopefully a Labour govt will. But EU membership was never a barrier here anyway - it was political choice by UK govt to allow such foreign investment.
 
monkeybarry said:
He treated an enquiry about whether he lied to Parliament with contempt. The "parties" are the content, the behaviours are the areas of substance.

Do you think behaviour is acceptable for an elected official?

Do you think the contempt he has shown Parliament consistently is acceptable for an official?

Do these behaviours represent (C/c)onservatism to you?
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When the question in parliament is such petty nonsense then it's entirely acceptable.

What's worse is that focusing on whether or not he was at a party distracts from the valuable conversation about whether he was right to imprison us in our own houses.
 
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