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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
The judges are appointed by the member states. It would be remarkably stupid of them not to appoint those who are likely to rule in their favour.
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Again that’s a trumpian view. Judges interpret law irrespective of who appoints them. Whether it is an Eu or GB appointee I am confident they will make the right decision.
 
scaramanga said:
The EU will appoint judges who will rule in their favour, the UK will in its interests.

To even consider any other outcome is unbelievably naive.
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I think the devil is in the detail and the implementation. We will have to wait and see how it pans out. I am sure though that this is far from over.
 
The devil was in getting a deal!
Everybody has much more pressing things to worry about now.
Once all the backslapping and self congratulatory hot air dissipates we can all focus on the cluster feck which is COVID-19 and the Boris led scout pack!
 
Robspur12 said:
I think the devil is in the detail and the implementation. We will have to wait and see how it pans out. I am sure though that this is far from over.
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Oh, I've no doubt the EU will take just about everything to arbitration, they're a bureaucracy - that's their way.

I don't think the arbitrators will be insisting we adjust our laws and standards with the EU creating new ones every 30 seconds.
 
Robspur12 said:
Yet you voted remain. I am sure you would have considered it more than most and on balance decided to remain was best.
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That was purely from selfish reasons. I had 6 months to sell and buy a house in order to get into the correct postcode for a school. I knew the disruption of a leave vote would likely scupper that - in the end I had to be take a punt with the application and exchanged a few days late.

Brexit will be marginally better for me, significantly better for the country as a whole IMO.
 
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scaramanga said:
That was purely from selfish reasons. I had 6 months to sell and buy a house in order to get into the correct postcode for a school. I knew the disruption of a leave vote would likely scupper that - in the end I had to be take a punt with the application and exchanged a few days late.

Brexit will be marginally better for me, significantly better for the country as a whole IMO.
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No it won't
 
I don't think anyone has managed to appraise exactly how this EU trade deal will shake down, partly because some of the key things are still be decided, financial services access for example. However, it looks like the EU got what they want: free trade of goods and food (we needed that too of course but more comes in than leaves) without giving us guarantees in services which is the main part of the British economy. The EU secured access to UK fishing waters, which is mainly symbolic, but if we wish to export fish to them - which is where most of our fish is sold - then giving them limited access to waters they have fished for centuries if no big deal.

We basically lose lots of small valuable things: ease of travel to or retiring in Spain for example, guaranteed phone roaming, a forum for controlling pollutants, a global reach to set various standards, research collaboration, being an entry point into the EU market for the likes of Sony or US banks etc etc.

While we can identify these small but appreciable degrades to things for us, there are still few to any benefits we can identify. The majority of people voted for parties who backed remain in the last election, and polls since the advisory vote showed a small but consistently majority wanted to remain. So we have a situation where the logic for Brexit doesn't stack up, and the majority of people in the UK and MPs don't back it. Yet we'll continue on this pointless path. While the theaters are closed, at least we have a political pantomime to tickle you as it unfolds.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't think anyone has managed to appraise exactly how this EU trade deal will shake down, partly because some of the key things are still be decided, financial services access for example. However, it looks like the EU got what they want: free trade of goods and food (we needed that too of course but more comes in than leaves) without giving us guarantees in services which is the main part of the British economy. The EU secured access to UK fishing waters, which is mainly symbolic, but if we wish to export fish to them - which is where most of our fish is sold - then giving them limited access to waters they have fished for centuries if no big deal.

We basically lose lots of small valuable things: ease of travel to or retiring in Spain for example, guaranteed phone roaming, a forum for controlling pollutants, a global reach to set various standards, research collaboration, being an entry point into the EU market for the likes of Sony or US banks etc etc.

While we can identify these small but appreciable degrades to things for us, there are still few to any benefits we can identify. The majority of people voted for parties who backed remain in the last election, and polls since the advisory vote showed a small but consistently majority wanted to remain. So we have a situation where the logic for Brexit doesn't stack up, and the majority of people in the UK and MPs don't back it. Yet we'll continue on this pointless path. While the theaters are closed, at least we have a political pantomime to tickle you as it unfolds.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :rolleyes:
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't think anyone has managed to appraise exactly how this EU trade deal will shake down, partly because some of the key things are still be decided, financial services access for example. However, it looks like the EU got what they want: free trade of goods and food (we needed that too of course but more comes in than leaves) without giving us guarantees in services which is the main part of the British economy. The EU secured access to UK fishing waters, which is mainly symbolic, but if we wish to export fish to them - which is where most of our fish is sold - then giving them limited access to waters they have fished for centuries if no big deal.

We basically lose lots of small valuable things: ease of travel to or retiring in Spain for example, guaranteed phone roaming, a forum for controlling pollutants, a global reach to set various standards, research collaboration, being an entry point into the EU market for the likes of Sony or US banks etc etc.

While we can identify these small but appreciable degrades to things for us, there are still few to any benefits we can identify. The majority of people voted for parties who backed remain in the last election, and polls since the advisory vote showed a small but consistently majority wanted to remain. So we have a situation where the logic for Brexit doesn't stack up, and the majority of people in the UK and MPs don't back it. Yet we'll continue on this pointless path. While the theaters are closed, at least we have a political pantomime to tickle you as it unfolds.
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As the Chairman of Tesco says today, the main thing is that it takes Brexit off the daily agenda (although I get there is a lot still to be discussed). I think we have to let this shake down now. The decision is made and deal is done. I don’t see any particular benefits but rather more costs for business and travellers to the EU. I think the EU businesses will have done better than UK ones. I also hope there is not going to be a drop in food standards. Anyway let’s see how this plays out.

Just one thing though, the tories have wrought chaos on this country, austerity, lack of preparation for the pandemic and brexit. Let’s hope people wake up and get rid of them at the next election.
 
Robspur12 said:
As the Chairman of Tesco says today, the main thing is that it takes Brexit off the daily agenda (although I get there is a lot still to be discussed). I think we have to let this shake down now. The decision is made and deal is done. I don’t see any particular benefits but rather more costs for business and travellers to the EU. I think the EU businesses will have done better than UK ones. I also hope there is not going to be a drop in food standards. Anyway let’s see how this plays out.

Just one thing though, the tories have wrought chaos on this country, austerity, lack of preparation for the pandemic and brexit. Let’s hope people wake up and get rid of them at the next election.
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Covid is more profound than Brexit, no doubt. Brexit looks like it will be no major change, but lots of small backward steps. A friend who’s been living in Ibiza is now subject to visa hassle and will have to move somewhere else. International companies won’t automatically put their European HQ in London. Why not Ireland, Paris, Amsterdam and have no restrictions to and from the EU? But that won’t happen overnight.

Covid is something the government couldn’t control, so people will not hold them to account. But the amounts of our money they squandered should be flagged up. By acting late they wasted many billions of peoples money.

Brexit has always been the Tory party resolving its own internal division. 10 years ago no one had any problems, then the Conservatives brought the nation to their internal argument and the result is 5 years of waste really. We used to have far more effective government. Whenever Blair’s name is mentioned it’s followed on here by ‘war crime’ but there was purpose at home. Things got done, improvements were made. In the last 5 years we’ve stood still and effectively gone backwards. Hard to see a future direction now. With little in the bank the government needs to be creative and resourceful, but it will be processing Brexit for more years to come.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Covid is more profound than Brexit, no doubt. Brexit looks like it will be no major change, but lots of small backward steps. A friend who’s been living in Ibiza is now subject to visa hassle and will have to move somewhere else. International companies won’t automatically put their European HQ in London. Why not Ireland, Paris, Amsterdam and have no restrictions to and from the EU? But that won’t happen overnight.

Covid is something the government couldn’t control, so people will not hold them to account. But the amounts of our money they squandered should be flagged up. By acting late they wasted many billions of peoples money.

Brexit has always been the Tory party resolving its own internal division. 10 years ago no one had any problems, then the Conservatives brought the nation to their internal argument and the result is 5 years of waste really. We used to have far more effective government. Whenever Blair’s name is mentioned it’s followed on here by ‘war crime’ but there was purpose at home. Things got done, improvements were made. In the last 5 years we’ve stood still and effectively gone backwards. Hard to see a future direction now. With little in the bank the government needs to be creative and resourceful, but it will be processing Brexit for more years to come.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Why can't your mate apply for settled status in Ibiza, it was part of the original withdrawl agreement.
 
P.D. said:
Why can't your mate apply for settled status in Ibiza, it was part of the original withdrawl agreement.
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I guess its just hassle and he doesn't want to stay permanently. If you just want to stay a short time longer, why bother? He doesn't live there, he's staying with a pal who does. For those wishing to retire in the sun it could be more of an issue. I remember in this thread, someone saying they wanted Brexit but 'this country was fuked' and they would be 'setting up a bar in Spain anyway.' That has to be a lot more difficult than it was! Or your typical Brit living off their pension here, who may as well enjoy some year-round sunshine and cheaper cost of living in Spain, Portugal etc. I'm not 1OO% sure how that works now, but I think you have to prove a certain level of income now. Before you just booked a ticket. Nothing could be simpler.

Boris did mention the government had some proactive post Brexit plans it had been keeping close to its chest. There has to be some flip side to it all. Various tax breaks, freeports (which exist in the EU), probably packages for farmers and fisherman etc.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Covid is something the government couldn’t control, so people will not hold them to account. But the amounts of our money they squandered should be flagged up. By acting late they wasted many billions of peoples money.
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The government couldn’t “control” covid. But it’s a misconception that they could not have done better to stop it taking the hold and to keep the numbers who died lower. It’s not just about wasting money, it’s about poor decision making overall, lack of proper preparation, and failing to take it seriously in the first place. Even the recent failure to revert to online teaching in high risk areas when the data was clearly showing that it was spreading quickly in many high schools, was a political mess. They should be held to account as over covid as much as over Brexit.
 
Robspur12 said:
The government couldn’t “control” covid. But it’s a misconception that they could not have done better to stop it taking the hold and to keep the numbers who died lower. It’s not just about wasting money, it’s about poor decision making overall, lack of proper preparation, and failing to take it seriously in the first place. Even the recent failure to revert to online teaching in high risk areas when the data was clearly showing that it was spreading quickly in many high schools, was a political mess. They should be held to account as over covid as much as over Brexit.
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Ah yes no doubt. Like it or not, we are connected to Europe. And most EU nations have struggled with Covid. We didn't have Sars. We are some of the freest nations on the planet and we don't give up our liberty easily. Germany no doubt did better than us, preparing earlier etc. However, Covid was imposed on every nation, Brexit was imposed on the UK by the Tories. That is why I don't think Labour should back the deal. They should abstain and make Brexit a Tory only deal. It is their mess well and truly.

@parklane1's keenness to have this whole brexit thing out the way is fully understandable. Our PM won a landslide promising just this. A clever tatic. Because this brexit nonsense will run and run. As you outlined @Robspur12 this deal is not really great for the UK. The EU exports more goods to us than us them, so free trade will remain in this sphere. But with services where the UK exports much more than we import, very little free trade is agreed! In the crucial area of financial services we don't have wholesale free access. So Parklane1's - and the nations - keenness to get this out the way, is sadly far from the case. As warned years ago Brexit and its implications will run and run. It is not one simple thing, but a host of complexities that have been unleashed. We will likely need agreements and arbitration on all manner of things going forward. There is so much to be defined still. In just one small sector like fishing, there is all manner of complexity:

Fisherman wanted EU boats to stay 12 miles from UK land. Currently, it is 6 miles, and Boris caved in and agreed 6 miles for the future, but with the UK getting more fish. However, UK fisherman used to swap quotas with French or German Fishman. Without this, many will be able to catch less fish than they did in the EU. Then you have details re. stocks. Who ensures we don't overfish? How will this be managed, overseen, arbitrated?

And fishing is just a tiny fraction of the UK economy. If we don't have access to the EU for UK services, then it appears the UK has ceded a great deal. Even when this deal has been published, it is not obvious exactly how it will impact various sectors of the economy.

So Labour should not back the deal. Brexiteers should not back the deal. Remainers should not back the deal. It really servers no one apart from the fella in charge who wangled his way into the top job off the back of a nonsense called brexit.
 
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