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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

monkeybarry said:
Not anyone that even remotely experienced it.
Only ones born in the 50/60s whose teenage years were watching war movies rather than watching war on the doorstep
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No, but they heard their old nans and pops waxing on about the hardships at great length and then watched the box set of the World At War on ITV in early 6's and think they were there or at least affected emotionally by it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its a last resort for Corbyn, clearly. And he would rather exhaust any/all other options before giving people a choice.

He is putting his own power plays ahead of this and has done all along.

His "deal" is brick, and he would rather saddle us with that than give people an option.

Thing is, and I completely recognise Im no expert, it looks to me like he will end up exactly where we are now.

Win election, get a minority, try and negotiate a deal that will never be, probably end up beholden to a smaller party for votes (SNP? Just as nutty as the DUP and will come with rather significant demands themselves) and then where are we? Deadlocked in the house.

And THEN he MIGHT consider going to the people.

Bear in mind as well the EU are far from likely to entertain much more in the way of negotiation.






If that happens it will not be the end of it at all. There will be years of Brexit-2 on the cards because Brexit-1 was a failure.
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The weird thing is that the Labour proposal and May's deal are exactly the same. The only slight difference is May's leaves open the possibility of maybe just about being able to escape the customs union is a decade or two.

Tom Tugendhat was hilarious on C4 news last night pointing this out.
 
Rorschach said:
May loses a vote against herself

I think they should just go with rock paper scissors at this stage.
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Looking at the situation (and what a f.cking mess it is) i'm honestly not sure if we would have been in any different situation now no matter who was leading us through the process (except Levy of course:)).

Naturally 'no deal' would have been an easy 'see you later' straight after the vote if that was our choice (it wasn't) BUT the EU have called the tune and we may have taken this way or that and certain maverick,stupid,opinionated,delusional (etc) politicians may have thought their plan/deal was best or they would have been 'tougher'....all that is scuppered by the EU, it would boil down to where we are now.

I'm not saying May has done a good job. Perhaps she made a mistake to chase a mandate via a GE, and ended up getting intertwined with the DUP, but even if she had secured a reasonable majority, even that wouldn't have been enough looking at the recent votes. I love the irony of her losing her voice as she withers into a dark room with no light and very little worthwhile left to say.

Someone has to do the job but the nuances, choices, elements are so varied that (understandably) to get a consensus it proving impossible. If politicians have a view on whats best for the COUNTRY, than thats alright by me, if that means they break into various groups, thats fine as well (although a pain in this instance) but the self-interested, career promoting, point scoring snakes and zealots that frequent Westminster can do one. This is not a political matter. It is a economic,social,national decision and should have been treated as such from the get go (ie stripped of politics)

We are at an impasse...literally going round in circles with no sign of a pathway out. Just take Mays deal, or No brexit. No deal is attractive BUT in 2019 and the faces involved..no chance.

EDit: I don't want no re-runs, general elections, time extensions (for what?)...the EU call the tune all it does if keep us in the infinite loop to the same conclusions.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
The weird thing is that the Labour proposal and May's deal are exactly the same. The only slight difference is May's leaves open the possibility of maybe just about being able to escape the customs union is a decade or two.

Tom Tugendhat was hilarious on C4 news last night pointing this out.
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Mays deal is "common rulebook", not customs union.

It allows more freedom for external trade deals, I believe.

Aside from which, Corbyns "I want a say in EU trade policy" is a complete non starter.
 
StephenH said:
How does a factory worker in the UK as an example, make themselves more valuable to the market. Other than working for less and longer?
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Working harder, training in rare skills (as an employer I'm always looking for people who want to train more), education, etc.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Looking at the situation (and what a f.cking mess it is) i'm honestly not sure if we would have been in any different situation now no matter who was leading us through the process (except Levy of course:)).

Naturally 'no deal' would have been an easy 'see you later' straight after the vote if that was our choice (it wasn't) BUT the EU have called the tune and we may have taken this way or that and certain maverick,stupid,opinionated,delusional (etc) politicians may have thought their plan/deal was best or they would have been 'tougher'....all that is scuppered by the EU, it would boil down to where we are now.

I'm not saying May has done a good job. Perhaps she made a mistake to chase a mandate via a GE, and ended up getting intertwined with the DUP, but even if she had secured a reasonable majority, even that wouldn't have been enough looking at the recent votes. I love the irony of her losing her voice as she withers into a dark room with no light and very little worthwhile left to say.

Someone has to do the job but the nuances, choices, elements are so varied that (understandably) to get a consensus it proving impossible. If politicians have a view on whats best for the COUNTRY, than thats alright by me, if that means they break into various groups, thats fine as well (although a pain in this instance) but the self-interested, career promoting, point scoring snakes and zealots that frequent Westminster can do one. This is not a political matter. It is a economic,social,national decision and should have been treated as such from the get go (ie stripped of politics)

We are at an impasse...literally going round in circles with no sign of a pathway out. Just take Mays deal, or No brexit. No deal is attractive BUT in 2019 and the faces involved..no chance.

EDit: I don't want no re-runs, general elections, time extensions (for what?)...the EU call the tune all it does if keep us in the infinite loop to the same conclusions.
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Unfortunately it is and has always been a political decision. The socio-economic- national case AT THiS TIME is to remain. I am not saying it is best for the country in the long term but at the moment while the politicians have failed to put in place proper contingency plans, a cliff edge exit is not good for the country and should not have been on the table.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Oh Boris! Facepalm

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...fire-over-remarks-about-child-abuse-inquiries
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Facepalm isnt even remotely the word...

It is criminal that that man has held high office in this country. That he is even considered a politician.

And its fudging hilarious/terrifying that he is considered likely for the Conservative leadership.

Aside from the bumbling affect there is something really sinister about him. I think the idea of him doing anything other than simply disappearing down the drain is actually rather dangerous.

He has already shown his hand in campaigning for Brexit, literally changing the course of this country, just to further his own career ambitions. He didnt give a fudge about the EU or the impact of his words and actions at all, he just wanted to manouvre himself to be Mays successor.

I dread to think what would happen if he actually made it there.

I fudging hate him.
 
Robspur12 said:
Unfortunately it is and has always been a political decision. The socio-economic- national case AT THiS TIME is to remain. I am not saying it is best for the country in the long term but at the moment while the politicians have failed to put in place proper contingency plans, a cliff edge exit is not good for the country and should not have been on the table.
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I actually think people are looking too short term, and not long term enough.

Short term pain - even if it is a real shock - for long term gain isnt a bad thing. Its a necessary thing.

And yet all focus is on the "but it might be difficult next month wah wah..."

Not that Im suggesting there is a long term plan, clearly there isnt. But there should be.

All this happening this week should have happened two years ago, imagine that...
 
Or as Scara said, improve abilities.

I used to work in a cable factory, making scart leads, network leads (RJ45) etc.

Got a nice pay bump when I worked out how to use the cutting machine, it set me above the guys sitting on the bench plugging leads.

The one guy who earned more than the rest though was the one who could do fibre optic leads, much more skilled.

Tricky too, he was teaching me before I left for another job.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
You asked 'how can they make themselves more valuable'

With the other elements remaining the same, more productive is the answer.
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Higher productivity is normally the better use of time and resources and in the main goes hand in hand with good labour and systems management.
Individuals these days have little time to waste if managed efficiently.

So as Scara said they can train and progress that way. But they can't work quicker their time is properly and efficiently managed.
 
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