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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

SpurMeUp said:
Those public figures who either lied or were stuipid, but acted smart, advising folks this would all be easy - they are the people who need to be held accountable. Them and the media titans who own newspapers and used them as a vehicle for their own agenda. Murdock, Barclay brothers, Desmond.
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100% agree here!
 
SpurMeUp said:
Can you slap some brick into our politicians instead? You don’t like his views but threatening him for posting them is a shame. It’s only politics, not like the arsenal game!!!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I am not threatening him for posting them. I am threatening him because he said he wants to knock some fudging sense into us. That is as clear as day threatening behaviour.

You Milo galeforce among others have different views to me on brexit never once have I made a threat to you, why for the simple reason you never have towards me.

You and I disagree massively on brexit but in recent months we have come to comment on each other posts in other threads with respect and politeness. You are stuck in your view as I am mine.

I have a couple of friends who voted remain in real life and it is fine. But guess what happens to anyone who offers to come and knock some fudging sense into me. They will get hurt.

Notice you do not have a problem with his post and his language towards violence. Play fair chap either were both wrong in your book or were not.
 
Robspur12 said:
Dear me, a low tax, low regulation economy. Regulations like the ones that control additives in food or tells us which chemicals are in household products or determine the safety of pesticides.

Better still let's make ourselves a tax haven where taxes are not paid so we cannot support decent public services like the police, NHS, schools.

The great, Tory right wing vision of the UK when really all most people wanted was control over our borders. Sad really.
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Which is why when or rather if we come out of the EU we vote someone like Corbyn in. If we are out of the EU I will vote for him.

The key thing is we get to decide what sort of governments we have. So if people want a hard right Tory government we would get one.

But I am convinced and once you take away the brexit support vote that most people want a centre ground or slightly liberal government. If you look at recent general elections it would point to that.

Tories are like wild animals fear of them is worse then they really are. Out of the EU I would expect our next parliament to be Labour or a Labour liberal coalition.
 
scaramanga said:
David Cameron asked for concessions, the EU told him to fudge off.
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Because David Cameron and the Tories had done nothing to cultivate relationships with our European partners. Goes back to a great point in one the earlier posts about how Britain thinks it can fudge off the world then think it can get its own way.

Over the years we got lots of concessions from the EU.
 
Robspur12 said:
Rubbish. The relationship should be symbiotic. Your view is about 80 years out of date. You're trying to rig the system to get the best for you and the rest of the Tory right.
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Someone in the US wants to buy a million widgets at £1 each.
The UK and Germany both make widgets.

Are we better off competing for £1m or letting them win the work and waiting for them to send 50p of it to Liverpool as the city of culture?
 
Robspur12 said:
Rubbish. The relationship should be symbiotic. Your view is about 80 years out of date. You're trying to rig the system to get the best for you and the rest of the Tory right.
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Surely if it's symbiotic there should be a bit of give and take? Not being told to fudge right off when you raise issues with the status quo?
 
StephenH said:
I really don't think we have been treated too shabbily or done badly by the EU!
Lord snooty and Brexit gang are living in the days of empire!
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Depends on industry I suspect. There are plenty of industries that have been shat on from a great height by the EU because they're less common than in the UK or less competitive.

It wasn't all that long ago that the EU was looking at methods to circuit around our veto in order to enforce transactional taxes in banking. Many were warning we risked losing many of our financial services to the US or Japan unless we found a way to curtail the aggressive socialism of the EU.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Although written with sarcasm, it is not a bad idea. Other EU nations have similar concerns. Baveria in Germany wants to put up its own border posts. Hungry are not cool with free movement etc. A combination of working with other EU nations to evolve FoM, plus excercising our own controls that are allowed under EU law but we are not using at the moment e.g. the ability to register and send back migrants from the EU who are not working after 4 weeks.

Simple effective things could have been done. But Brexit is all about the conservative party. The referendum was to placate half of it. The decisions May and Boris make are driven by stopping it splitting in half. We are the victims.
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We did try and extract concessions but got given a stone in return. I think people would be interested in reform (myself included depending on the level of change) but no party has activley campaigned for a remain and reform agenda including concrete proposals for what they'd change and how they'd go about getting support for them. I suspect this is because they aren't interested in reform but even if they were the EU would give them short thrift anyway.
 
scaramanga said:
Depends on industry I suspect. There are plenty of industries that have been shat on from a great height by the EU because they're less common than in the UK or less competitive.

It wasn't all that long ago that the EU was looking at methods to circuit around our veto in order to enforce transactional taxes in banking. Many were warning we risked losing many of our financial services to the US or Japan unless we found a way to curtail the aggressive socialism of the EU.
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Lord Snooty's area of expertise and heavy involvement I believe! Never came to much if I remember correctly!
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Surely if it's symbiotic there should be a bit of give and take? Not being told to fudge right off when you raise issues with the status quo?
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There was plenty of give and take. Don't believe the rhetoric of the leavers. We didn't join the eurozone, stayed out of schengen, the Danes opted out of Europol. But what Cameron was asking for was compromise on one of the 4 freedoms in a way that was a bit like an ultimatum. That was not the way to go about it. What he did secure was concessions on benefit claims for EU migrants.
 
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Robspur12 said:
There was plenty of give and take. Don't believe the rhetoric of the leavers. We didn't join the eurozone, stayed out of schegen, the Danes opted out of Europol. But what Cameron was asking for was compromise on one of the 4 freedoms in a way that was a bit like an ultimatum. That was not the way to go about it. What he did secure was concessions on benefit claims for EU migrants.
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He secured a small slowing for a few years. That's virtually no concession at all. They told him to fudge off on everything else, including the utterly ridiculous ability to claim child benefit for children who don't even live in the country.
 
P.D. said:
because they aren't interested in reform but even if they were the EU would give them short thrift anyway.
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I think if we AKA ’the Conservative Party’ don't get what they want they just scream ’bloody foreigners!’ and start acting like the balmy army and storm off!
 
scaramanga said:
He secured a small slowing for a few years. That's virtually no concession at all. They told him to fudge off on everything else, including the utterly ridiculous ability to claim child benefit for children who don't even live in the country.
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That is a very reductive view of what his deal got for the UK. Below are the actual full details, he extracted reasonable concessions such as an acknowledgement that the UK did not want to be part of further political integration, in work benefits could not be claimed for 4 years and the pound would not have a lesser status than the Euro.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

Doesn't fit well with the " Britain doesn't get any concessions from the EU" narrative that we are repeatedly told.
 
StephenH said:
I think if we AKA ’the Conservative Party’ don't get what they want they just scream ’bloody foreigners!’ and start acting like the balmy army and storm off!
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I don't think most Tories are anti immigration (some are) but they use it as a pretence to help fulfil their own agenda which is really de-regulation and legal freedom to operate outside of the EU framework.
 
Robspur12 said:
That is a very reductive view of what his deal got for the UK. Below are the actual full details, he extracted reasonable concessions such as an acknowledgement that the UK did not want to be part of further political integration, in work benefits could not be claimed for 4 years and the pound would not have a lesser status than the Euro.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

Doesn't fit well with the " Britain doesn't get any concessions from the EU" narrative that we are repeatedly told.
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I read the same article and I don't think it's an unfair characterisation of the EU to suggest that the rest is just some words that they can and will choose to ignore when it suits them. The only actual guarantee is on the delay of benefits - that's a one-off and we wouldn't get another.
 
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