Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Grays_1890]

Nope disagree massively here.

If you look at the stars I'm sure more crimes are committed by whites, you would expect this as for a few more years it is a white majority country.

But just like the police had an institutional racism problem and of course let's do the prefix thing that not all police officers are racist and not all police forces are racist. They had to take measures to counter what was a large problem.

It is clear that gangs, not individuals but gangs so that talks of cooperation were targeting non Muslims. Why did they not race Muslim girls?

It shows it was not a man walking down the street overcome with urges who raped the first girl he saw. Which and I'm not a lawyer but surely that makes it premeditated and when the were groups putting girls into vans then obviously it is more then one so is a gang.

I work with a Muslim lad so here is the bit to get your juices flowing, it is clear they are not all like that. But why when the were hundreds of racists in the MET do we say they have an institutional problem but when we have gangs of them and in different cities as well can people not admit to an institutional problem in Muslim communities. Yes not every one is but the fact that gangs of men in different cities decided to *struggle cuddle* non muslims. You can't admit to it being an institutional problem is just a bizarre and dangerous misguided political correctness.

I'm off out to the gym but look forward to carrying on the debate later.

The stats take into account those variations in numbers and it goes beyond those % of being a white country. That includes gangs.

Just as most online predators in this county taking into account this is a predominantly white British country are......white men.

You think powerful institutions like banks and companies in the square Mile are not breading grounds for it and it also not being reported or followed up with given the poor conviction rate in *struggle cuddle*? Women are not reporting abuse across the country because they are not being heard, its not just this idea that Asian men are doing it and acting in a code of silence.

As i have said before, this country has an appalling track record of child and sexual abuse, so I don't think we clean our souls by just blaming others as a convenience, its an uncomfortable truth people don't want to acknowledge

I'm more interested in getting the crime dealt with than looking for people to blame for it.

 

[monkeybarry]

It is always going to be the case that you will have problems in a country. But importing problems is madness.

Large, massive numbers of young men coming to this country with a very different culture and often coming from countries with very different laws (treatment towards women being one of them) is storing up problems.

People sticking their head in the sand over it is what is causing the shift to the right and then the extreme right.

Lovely liberal minded people will wake up after some sort of election shock result and say "yes yes something should be done about it" but honestly the warning signs are there already. Have been for a long time. We don't want to end up with a Trump.


Though I now think some want a horrible Trump style leader just so they can have a moan about them.

No, propaganda and false reporting is doing that.
(See most of Marks posts. And some of yours)

Anyone burying their head in the sand about risk is an idiot, for sure. Thankfully those numbers are very low and the people with influence are smart enough to recognise the risks and put processes in place.

I do, however, agree with you that people that bury their head in the sand about the truth are dangerous - unfortunately it's the likes of you and Mark that fall into that category; believing the propaganda and buying into the "fear of the other".

I think I've mentioned it already, but if not - read/listen to The Nazi Mind (Laurence Reed).
You'll see most of those things having grown in Western society over the past 15 years, especially the Fear of the Other; we are heavily in the Them and Us area at the moment - but on a few levels; one being the "indigenous Vs migrant" and the other being "accurate situation analysts (is the likes of me) Vs story and fear believers (ie you and Mark)".

And that isn't an absolute critism - the power of fear, the power of storytelling, the power and influence of the media are huge and well refined machines; they are excellent at what they do, and have been for much of human history, in various guides. I can really see the lure and appeal of it.

What we are experiencing now isn't new; it just looks different.

 

[monkeybarry]

Nope disagree massively here.

If you look at the stars I'm sure more crimes are committed by whites, you would expect this as for a few more years it is a white majority country.

But just like the police had an institutional racism problem and of course let's do the prefix thing that not all police officers are racist and not all police forces are racist. They had to take measures to counter what was a large problem.

It is clear that gangs, not individuals but gangs so that talks of cooperation were targeting non Muslims. Why did they not race Muslim girls?

It shows it was not a man walking down the street overcome with urges who raped the first girl he saw. Which and I'm not a lawyer but surely that makes it premeditated and when the were groups putting girls into vans then obviously it is more then one so is a gang.

I work with a Muslim lad so here is the bit to get your juices flowing, it is clear they are not all like that. But why when the were hundreds of racists in the MET do we say they have an institutional problem but when we have gangs of them and in different cities as well can people not admit to an institutional problem in Muslim communities. Yes not every one is but the fact that gangs of men in different cities decided to *struggle cuddle* non muslims. You can't admit to it being an institutional problem is just a bizarre and dangerous misguided political correctness.

I'm off out to the gym but look forward to carrying on the debate later.

Because the Muslim community is more close knit, so it's harder to achieve.
Because the Muslim community has a different attitude towards sex and socialising at a young age.
Because it's far easier to hide what you are doing in a larger demographic than it is in a smaller demographic.
Because some extreme Muslim elements consider non Muslims inferior.

Edit:

Rape statistics by ethnicity - Office for National Statistics

Here is the link to the most recent sexual crimes data. You can get ethnicity breakdown here. You could make some extrapolations from that to create an indicator towards religious background - but even at a stretch I don't think it'll suit your propaganda.

 

[Grays_1890]

No, propaganda and false reporting is doing that.
(See most of Marks posts. And some of yours)

Anyone burying their head in the sand about risk is an idiot, for sure. Thankfully those numbers are very low and the people with influence are smart enough to recognise the risks and put processes in place.

I do, however, agree with you that people that bury their head in the sand about the truth are dangerous - unfortunately it's the likes of you and Mark that fall into that category; believing the propaganda and buying into the "fear of the other".

I think I've mentioned it already, but if not - read/listen to The Nazi Mind (Laurence Reed).
You'll see most of those things having grown in Western society over the past 15 years, especially the Fear of the Other; we are heavily in the Them and Us area at the moment - but on a few levels; one being the "indigenous Vs migrant" and the other being "accurate situation analysts (is the likes of me) Vs story and fear believers (ie you and Mark)".

And that isn't an absolute critism - the power of fear, the power of storytelling, the power and influence of the media are huge and well refined machines; they are excellent at what they do, and have been for much of human history, in various guides. I can really see the lure and appeal of it.

What we are experiencing now isn't new; it just looks different.

The issue I have is, are people genuinely worried about the crime and the victims or are they more interested in using the crimes as a reason to add to theirs and others bias. If people really care about CSE in this country then they would be unwavering in their fight going for all people who are criminals in that respect, not picking and choosing, thats where I can't stomach it, its the hypocrisy, its not whataboutary, you either care or you don't

Thats why, sorry, I can't listen to Tommy Robinson go on about how much he cares about women when he has beaten up multiple ex GFs and also turned a blind ey to the fact that over a dozen of his old associates are locked up for crimes against underage kids.

Be consistent in your views or get exposed, thats the truth of it.

 

[monkeybarry]

The issue I have is, are people genuinely worried about the crime and the victims or are they more interested in using the crimes as a reason to add to theirs and others bias. If people really care about CSE in this country then they would be unwavering in their fight going for all people who are criminals in that respect, not picking and choosing, thats where I can't stomach it, its the hypocrisy, its not whataboutary, you either care or you don't

Thats why, sorry, I can't listen to Tommy Robinson go on about how much he cares about women when he has beaten up multiple ex GFs and also turned a blind ey to the fact that over a dozen of his old associates are locked up for crimes against underage kids.

Be consistent in your views or get exposed, thats the truth of it.

Exactly.
And that is the basis of a fair and just society.
Outside of that is racism and fascism. And it's important we keep shining a light on that.

When people get scared or feel hard done by, they look for a reason. It's far more palatable if that reason doesn't look like, or act like, or believe in, the same as yourself or your friends.
And there are plenty of people who are more than happy to exploit that for their own personal gain.