Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
For as long as they can leverage and give the money back, its not gifted aid
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
For as long as they can leverage and give the money back, its not gifted aid
monkeybarry
Steffen Freund
That's obviously a horrible experience.
And one which is very unusual in Norwich - although your annecdotal evidence that people on her course are experiencing it is something worth digging deeper into.
But there is absolutely zero evidence within what you have said that these two people are "illegal immigrants". They might be. They might on holiday. They might be Uni students (there has been a marked increase in "non white" younger people in Norwich over the past year). They might have come here to work under a different visa type.
If they acted in a criminal way, they should be reported. If it's a regular thing, those people need to report it so the Police can build intelligence.
I haven't called Mark racist for having a concern about not knowing the profile of people coming here without a visa - that is a concern.
He is a racist because he has stated they are dangerous for no other reason than they were not born here - that's making a negative judgement based primarily on the persons race ; that is racist. I have tested this, along with his fascistic troupes, on numerous occasions to give the benefit of the doubt. He has been consistent in his judgements and basis that underpins them.
Re; the situation your family member has experienced - I am going to suggest there is a more likely reason:
Norwich has been a big dumping ground for men involved in County Lines Gangs activities over the past few years (especially from London/SE courts, and Cambridgeshire. But also Suffolk and into Norfolk) Prisoners are released often with nowhere to go, and sometimes incentivised by their gangs to stay in an area and expand their reach.
Based on the demographics and geographical location of Norwich, this is far more likely to be the issue.
It could, of course, just be two people being arseholes. Being an arsehole isn't exclusive to a certain race; it certain isn't outside of British actions.
Making an assumption about someone based on race is racist.
Making a risk assessment based on evidence about them and and their actions/associations etc is a valid concern.
Glenda's Legs
Cecil Poynton
There are concerns over immigration which are valid and then there are “concerns” over immigration which have less validity. The latter tends to be a cover for selective picking of which type (colour) of immigrant is acceptable by scaremongering or treating all immigrants as the same.
Despite the efforts of the previous government, someone who enters the country illegally but claims asylum at the first opportunity has a legal status of Asylum Seeker. At that point whilst their case is being dealt with, they are not illegal. They get a certain level of support because they are not allowed to work - basic accommodation, a per week payment of I think £50 (and even less if their accommodation includes meals). Once their claim is assessed they are either given leave to remain (which is likely to be for a limited period of time) or are rejected and have to be deported (granted there are issues with this for some countries). If they disappear before claiming asylum, or after having a claim rejected, then their status becomes Illegal and they will not be entitled to any benefits, so we are not paying illegal immigrants anything. As such it is a) wrong to categorise every migrant as illegal and b) wrong to assume that every young man who comes here is intent on crime, *struggle cuddle* or murder.
Some without doubt will be economic migrants looking for a better life - that doesn’t automatically make them rapists or murderers. I don’t begrudge them that quest but it’s not what the asylum/ refugee system is for and I want us to have robust checks in place to determine who truly qualifies and who does not.
But anyone who looks at migrants from Africa or the Middle East or South Asia and deems them to be a potential threat to women/ people in this country just because of where they come from is being racist.
Despite the efforts of the previous government, someone who enters the country illegally but claims asylum at the first opportunity has a legal status of Asylum Seeker. At that point whilst their case is being dealt with, they are not illegal. They get a certain level of support because they are not allowed to work - basic accommodation, a per week payment of I think £50 (and even less if their accommodation includes meals). Once their claim is assessed they are either given leave to remain (which is likely to be for a limited period of time) or are rejected and have to be deported (granted there are issues with this for some countries). If they disappear before claiming asylum, or after having a claim rejected, then their status becomes Illegal and they will not be entitled to any benefits, so we are not paying illegal immigrants anything. As such it is a) wrong to categorise every migrant as illegal and b) wrong to assume that every young man who comes here is intent on crime, *struggle cuddle* or murder.
Some without doubt will be economic migrants looking for a better life - that doesn’t automatically make them rapists or murderers. I don’t begrudge them that quest but it’s not what the asylum/ refugee system is for and I want us to have robust checks in place to determine who truly qualifies and who does not.
But anyone who looks at migrants from Africa or the Middle East or South Asia and deems them to be a potential threat to women/ people in this country just because of where they come from is being racist.
Mikey10
Johnny Morrison
Terrible experience for your wife.
My daughter was, however, verbally abused by a group of young men (who were very definitely white and British) in the centre of a Dorset market town on Saturday evening as she was coming out of an Indian restaurant.
Not sure where to send them to. Maybe Hampshie, or West Sussex?
Arseholes are arseholes.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
It is always going to be the case that you will have problems in a country. But importing problems is madness.
Large, massive numbers of young men coming to this country with a very different culture and often coming from countries with very different laws (treatment towards women being one of them) is storing up problems.
People sticking their head in the sand over it is what is causing the shift to the right and then the extreme right.
Lovely liberal minded people will wake up after some sort of election shock result and say "yes yes something should be done about it" but honestly the warning signs are there already. Have been for a long time. We don't want to end up with a Trump.
Though I now think some want a horrible Trump style leader just so they can have a moan about them.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
How many more illegal immigrants does Norfolk need to tip the gene pool balance back towards 20 digits?
parklane1
Vivian Woodward
Yep and the world is full of them of all colors and races.
Lost Mango
Neil Sullivan
And yet no studies in this country have found a correlation (let alone a causation) between immigration and increasing crime levels.
In fact crime levels have fallen in most categories despite record numbers of immigrants (illegal and otherwise).
In fact crime levels have fallen in most categories despite record numbers of immigrants (illegal and otherwise).
johnola
Chris Armstrong
What’s your implication there?
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Well it seems the are more and more incidents where the police discourage reporting of incidents.
Then in the case of my wife and relatives they did not report being harassed as the I'd the opinion formed that the police do not care about women being harassed if it is from certain sections of society. As seen by the appalling reaction of the Police in Rochdale over the grooming gangs and how they treated the young girls reporting it.
I honestly thought this country had moved forward in it's treatment of women and that we all felt they should be treated with equality. But when I read this thread I think people are far more concerned with being politically correct then seeing an obvious problem with allowing young men with a very different culture and belief system in.
People are seeing the same problem all round Europe and it's not racism. To ignore it shows how well the liberals have brain washed you. To parrot the same tired chants of it's the right wing media whipping up hate actually downplays the lived experiences of thousands of women. It's rather odd that you think it's OK.
Lost Mango
Neil Sullivan
My take is that it is other factors such as class and poverty rather than immigration driving many of these issues, both in the UK and in Europe. It is easy to pin it on immigrants as an 'obvious' solution but the research doesn't show that link in the UK at least. It may have to do with reporting as you suggest but given the immigrant numbers we are talking about then surely even with a drop in reporting the surge in immigration would be reflected in the figures if that was the main driver? And it isn't.
Immigrants fall, typically, into the most impoverished sections of society across Europe - by definition they tend to arrive with very little - so there is an overlap. But the crime, in my view, is not because they are immigrants but because of the way society is structured now for immigrants and non-immigrants and the lack of opportunities. We see the ever increasing discrepancy across the economic reality between the haves and the have nots and this drives lots of social issues.
In terms of misogyny and treatment of women, yes there are cultural issues at play here but to just say it is that to me seems blinkered. I'm not convinced Andrew Tate has that great a following in immigrant communities, for example, but is tapping into a sense of abandonment and side-lining in young, white males, who are also being failed in many economically deprived communities by their schools and other support networks.
I don't think it is OK in any way shape or form (but I always find it amusing when people claim someone else who they disagree with is brainwashed but they of course are of sound rational and independent mind) but I also don't think it is OK to take anecdotal incidents (with due respect to your female relatives) and determine a causation that isn't supported in any actual way. Reading the reports on Rochdale the biggest issue was agency and police failings and short-staffing rather than any evidence it was ignored for political correctness reasons and, as you say, the fact the girls weren't believed or were treated as trash who had made lifestyle choices by police. It was treated as a low priority from the start and would have been no matter what culture or ethnicity the perpetrators were.
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
Nothing to do with being politically correct it's having to listen to absolute bias in commentary. Not everyone from varied and religious backgrounds are a problem, not all migrants are an issue. Saying that doesn't make anyone politically correct, just makes them correct
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Sweden has been wrecked, horrendous *struggle cuddle*/crime percentages
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Don't think anyone has ever said all immigrants are a problem. My wife is one and though a bit annoying I would not say she was a problem.
But then the Irish have a similar culture to us and people coming from Ireland will be used to a similar legal system as us, of course some will still break the law as will happen from anywhere.
The news is very biased, both sides.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Yep.
Grays_1890
Jimmy Cantrell
Mate there was three accounts (under one person maybe) saying exactly that.....
I'm all for people being held accountable but I'm for all people being judged as individuals not under a banner.....unless they are Liverpool fans
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
It is the complete denial to admit that the is any sort of issue with these young men coming to this country illegally that I find mind boggling.
Also scary because I know what sadly will come next. A more controlled system would still mean we took our responsibilities to look after a manageable amount. But the liberals who seem hell bent on a completely uncontrolled system and who ignore the reports of ever increasing amount of women. Will result in a backlash and a massive pivot to the far right.
I see what has happened in America, I know the sort of people that admire Trump and this is a key point where you and I disagree. The people that like Trump have not been conned by him. They were waiting for him because of how the left behaved previously.
It is the same in this country. It is by the way not Farage you need to worry about. But someone will come along and the concerns of millions of people and a lot of justified concerns at times will be used for power and we will end up with our own Trump.
It is why I keep saying a controlled soft landing is what we should hope for. I fear the way Europe is going it is already to late.
Have heard a few already what I would call sane people say that Putin might he the saviour of Europe. Which I called them out on.
People on here say about USA heading for a civil war, I see the same in Europe and it is fault of people like Merkel for her open border policies.
After Trump won in America the were many on here saying we need tou learn and understand why this happened. Do people really want to understand?? Or do they want to stay in their guardian reading echo chamber?