Paris

[Bonsaiboy]

Two more dead, two hostages sieges going on, this could get very messy indeed.

Like that mongrel who killed Lee Rigby, these people were known to authorities and the French security services are gonna take a lot of flak for not monitoring these nut jobs. We could be watching the election of Front National happening before our eyes if this gets any worse.

 

[scaramanga]

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/7266-Paris/page9


Who are we as non-Muslims to declare that these pictures aren't offensive to Muslims? If they are offended by pictures depicting an entity they hold dearest to their hearts in a satirical way, they have every right to be offended no? Just as we have every right to roll our eyes and say, 'come on guys, it's just a ****ing cartoon'.

If you can be bothered, this is an interesting piece. Not one I necessarily agree with fully, but at least it challenges the one-sided party-line that is being thrown about.


http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/20...-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

Well I'm a couple of paragraphs in and I already disagree massively.

Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. Therefore cartoons ridiculing Islam and its mass-murdering, child-****ing creator are not racist. Neither, as far as I can tell are they homophobic. They frequently depict Muhammad as homosexual for two reasons:
1) In those times he probably did **** men from time to time, plenty of historians seem to think it was very common
2) It really ****es off muslamic infidels and in doing so, shows how silly their religion is

The author is also flat out wrong to suggest that only Islam was ridiculed by Hebdo - I've seen as many cartoons ridiculing the Pope as I have Muhammad.

Having finished the article my opinion hasn't changed. I agree that the cartoons weren't always great, they weren't even always funny but there is value in enraging people with a closed mind - doing so shows the world just how closed their minds are and how silly many of their beliefs are.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Well at least we know what happened to Coulibaly now.

People thought Michael Johnson had a fall from grace, but from Tottenham youth team to being the subject of an international man-hunt is a new low.

 

[AuroRaman]

Well I'm a couple of paragraphs in and I already disagree massively.

Islam isn't a race, it's a religion. Therefore cartoons ridiculing Islam and its mass-murdering, child-****ing creator are not racist. Neither, as far as I can tell are they homophobic. They frequently depict Muhammad as homosexual for two reasons:
1) In those times he probably did **** men from time to time, plenty of historians seem to think it was very common
2) It really ****es off muslamic infidels and in doing so, shows how silly their religion is

The author is also flat out wrong to suggest that only Islam was ridiculed by Hebdo - I've seen as many cartoons ridiculing the Pope as I have Muhammad.

You are correct in asserting Islam is a religion not a race. Just as UKIP/EDL/Britain First followers are when they discuss gassing Muslims, shooting them in the head one-by-one and so on and so forth and then defiantly saying 'not raysist cuz Muslam aint a race' (I am not calling you one of these types of people) I think any reasonable, able-minded individual can assert that it can be classed as as a form of racism. I think you're intelligent enough to know exactly what the author is attempting to convey in that sense.

Your other points:

I agree with point two, their satire is aimed for that purpose. I don't think you mean muslamic infidels though, as you and I would be classed as one of them

Point one, I highly doubt that is the case. But I don't know for sure. Just like no-one knows for sure if Muhammad enjoyed same-sex experiences. Even though you and I have very similar views on religion (bar personally I can see value in faith and how it can help someone), can you see how it is offensive to Muslims? In the same way as ridiculing the Pope can be very offensive to Catholics?

 

[scaramanga]

You are correct in asserting Islam is a religion not a race. Just as UKIP/EDL/Britain First followers are when they discuss gassing Muslims, shooting them in the head one-by-one and so on and so forth and then defiantly saying 'not raysist cuz Muslam aint a race' (I am not calling you one of these types of people) I think any reasonable, able-minded individual can assert that it can be classed as as a form of racism. I think you're intelligent enough to know exactly what the author is attempting to convey in that sense.

That's an error on the part of the EDL types though. When they say they want to kick out Muslims they mean they want to kick out anyone that's a bit brown.

When I say that Islam and its followers are ridiculous and deserving of ridicule I mean just that and it's my interpretation that Hebdo meant the same (I stand to be corrected by someone who knows his work better though).

Your other points:

I agree with point two, their satire is aimed for that purpose. I don't think you mean muslamic infidels though, as you and I would be classed as one of them

You obviously don't know your EDL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M <--- This is possibly one of the greatest things the inter.net ever did. It's also well worth a Google search for "Muslamic ray guns"

Point one, I highly doubt that is the case. But I don't know for sure. Just like no-one knows for sure if Muhammad enjoyed same-sex experiences. Even though you and I have very similar views on religion (bar personally I can see value in faith and how it can help someone), can you see how it is offensive to Muslims? In the same way as ridiculing the Pope can be very offensive to Catholics?

Yep, I can see it - both religions consider homosexuality to be inherently wrong. That's a stance I find ridiculous and would like to see ridiculed as much as possible. The fact that it angers them just goes back to point 2 and shows their religion up for what it is.

As I mentioned in my first (or maybe second?) post in this thread, I really wanted to find a cartoon of Jesus or Buddha sodomising Muhammad so I could ridicule both at once, but it seems that rule 34 doesn't quite cater to my tastes yet. If I could draw for **** I'd draw one myself.

 

[billyiddo]

I have at no point suggested understanding the gunmens cause or justified it. I was pushing to a separate debate of what is offensive and what is not.



My point is that racism was not illegal or frowned upon a few decades ago and is still common in some places, with time the lines around what is acceptable and what isn't has changed. the debate is on-going and the general mindset is evolving. I do not think the outside world should be held accountable to any faiths laws if they don't want to be. My point is that there could be a better understanding of different cultures and why they find things offensive.

again i re-iterate, I dislike a lot of the cartoons but I choose not to look at them. That is my right to be offended done. And I do believe I have that right.

Of course you have the right to be offended, what you don't have is the right not to be offended and by the same token those who drew the cartoon have the right to offend should they choose - do you agree with the cartoonists right to draw the cartoon?

Racisim is different as by the letter it is the same law for everyone - anyone can be the victim of racisim and anyone can commit an act of racisim, so the law is even (by the letter if not in practice)

 

[AuroRaman]

That's an error on the part of the EDL types though. When they say they want to kick out Muslims they mean they want to kick out anyone that's a bit brown.

When I say that Islam and it's followers are ridiculous and deserving of ridicule I mean just that and it's my interpretation that Hebdo meant the same (I stand to be corrected by someone who knows his work better though).



You obviously don't know your EDL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M <--- This is possibly one of the greatest things the Common ostrich ever did



Yep, I can see it - both religions consider homosexuality to be inherently wrong. That's a stance I find ridiculous and would like to see ridiculed as much as possible. The fact that it angers them just goes back to point 2 and shows their religion up for what it is.

As I mentioned in my first (or maybe second?) post in this thread, I really wanted to find a cartoon of Jesus or Buddha sodomising Muhammad so I could ridicule both at once, but it seems that rule 34 doesn't quite cater to my tastes yet. If I could draw for **** I'd draw one myself.

:ross: Yes I have seen that! And I should have realised that's what you were referring to!

Yes I read that and chuckled

 

[AuroRaman]

BBC: Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Lebanese Hezbollah group, has made a statement via video link, saying that Islamic extremists have insulted Islam and the Prophet Muhammad more than those who have published satirical cartoons mocking the religion.
He did not make a specific reference to the Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris but referred to Islamic State militants in Syria and Iraq, saying they had done more harm to Islam than anyone else in history.

.

 

[Modric THFC]

Racism, sexism, homophobia, etc are bad things because they ridicule something that a person has no choice over.

Religion is open to ridicule because it is the choice of a believer to close their minds and intentionally become a godtard.

Fair enough but the magazine drew Muslims with hook noses and black people with huge lips etc.
Racist stereotypes of arabs and black people.

This a decent article on it http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/20...-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

 

[scaramanga]

Fair enough but the magazine drew Muslims with hook noses and black people with huge lips etc.
Racist stereotypes of arabs and black people.

This a decent article on it http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/20...-speech-does-not-mean-freedom-from-criticism/

That's already been linked.

Out of interest, how does a cartoonist portray a Muslim in a way that everyone will instantly recognise without resorting to stereotypes? Bearing in mind that a cartoon is designed to be read and understood in a glance.

 

[Modric THFC]

That's already been linked.

Out of interest, how does a cartoonist portray a Muslim in a way that everyone will instantly recognise without resorting to stereotypes? Bearing in mind that a cartoon is designed to be read and understood in a glance.

Clothing?
Another question is how do Muslims know what Mohamed looks like if they're not supposed to have images of him?

 

[billyiddo]

All kickng off in Paris/France right now...

 

[Bonsaiboy]

That's already been linked.

Out of interest, how does a cartoonist portray a Muslim in a way that everyone will instantly recognise without resorting to stereotypes? Bearing in mind that a cartoon is designed to be read and understood in a glance.

No one has absolutely any idea what he looked like, everything you ever hear about Mohammed, which Muslims represent as fact, was written over a hundred years after he died. They'll tell you he did this or that, but it's all a fabrication. Islam is full of fabrication.

He was actually probably Syrian and the Quran was probably written in Syriac, full of half remembered Bible stories Mohammed picked up on his travels.

 

[scaramanga]

Clothing?
Another question is how do Muslims know what Mohamed looks like if they're not supposed to have images of him?

I think clothing is more regional than religious - one could easily mistake a muslim in some parts of the world for an image of Jesus (not the westernised, white Jesus).

They don't. It's all made up fairy stories, like Father Christmas for adults.

 

[AuroRaman]

I think clothing is more regional than religious - one could easily mistake a muslim in some parts of the world for an image of Jesus (not the westernised, white Jesus).

They don't. It's all made up fairy stories, like Father Christmas for adults.

:jaw:

 

[scaramanga]

:jaw:

:ross:

 

[Seedy Ron]

Sounds like it's ended as it was always likely to end:

French police have stormed two hostage sites in Paris and north of the city.

Gunshots and explosions have been heard at a printworks warehouse in Dammartin-en-Goele, where two suspects in the Charlie Hebdo shootings were holding at least one hostage.

Police say the suspects, brothers Cherif and Said Kouachi, have been killed.

Explosions and gunfire could also be heard at a second hostage site in eastern Paris, at Porte de Vincennes.

A gunman there was holding several hostages at a kosher supermarket. Reports suggest he is linked to the Charlie Hebdo suspects.

After the operation started, several hostages could be seen leaving the supermarket.

The hostage at the printworks warehouse has also been freed, while a police officer at the scene was injured, AFP news agency said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30752239

 

[glorygloryeze]

No one has absolutely any idea what he looked like, everything you ever hear about Mohammed, which Muslims represent as fact, was written over a hundred years after he died. They'll tell you he did this or that, but it's all a fabrication. Islam is full of fabrication.

He was actually probably Syrian and the Quran was probably written in Syriac, full of half remembered Bible stories Mohammed picked up on his travels.

Is Islam more fabricated than, say, Christianity (or Sikhism or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism for that matter)?

 

[Roy1983]

Good riddance to all 4 of them. ****ing cowards hiding behind masks and guns. Cheerio now.

 

[scaramanga]

Is Islam more fabricated than, say, Christianity (or Sikhism or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism for that matter)?

Nope. They're all bull****.