africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
this thing is getting out of control. i'm leaving this line of discussion for the time being as its not going to get resolved
-
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OT: What next for Harry?
- Thread starter SUIYHA
- Start date
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
See? I think you misinterpret a lot of what I say. I didn't say anything about us having a problem. There was no problem at all, but I felt that one would arise if I discussed Harry at any length at all in that conversation PRECISELY because of what we've just been talking about, thus I suggested to him we go to PM and we did.
I've said all I can honestly say about it at this point. And frankly, had it not been for the lengthy sliding discussion about Harry which was arising in this thread, I would've kept my mouth firmly shut. I'm all for moving on, but like you, I'm not going to sit back and watch opinions I personally value get trashed when (to all intents and purposes) it looked as though we'd moved beyond that. To quote you, you know it goes both ways.
Finally, and this is a genuine question. Are you going to leave AVB alone for a while? Because I swear (and absolutely have me up on it if I have got it wrong) that you said you felt unable to give him any time/a break because 'Harry wasn't given one' (in your opinion I might add)?
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I tried my best mate, i really did, but you simply thought I was playing a 'victim' card.
I'd be delighted to shake hands over the internet here and just move on, hopefully enjoying more fruitful discussions, agreements and disagreements in the season(s) to come. Wanna?
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
i might or i might not. but if i dont it would be primarily because harry wasnt given one you quite a significant bunch here.
in truth i really dont care....and i havent actually said THAT much about him since we kicked off the season. but i reserve the right to give him the same treatment as harry got during his tenure......i dont understand why people should have their cake and eat it too
AVB isnt a bad man, he isnt a bad coach...what he is is unproven at the highest level or club management....and he has been a categorical failure during his short time at the highest level of club management. and he hasnt shown anything in particular note worthy to warrant his accolade
but he is clearly an intelligent coach who knows his literature.
if i want to hold him up to the same standards as harry was held up to...then i will . sadly
Mattilda Collywobs
Phil Gray
Hi,
I joined this forum a few weeks ago. I intended to post every so often.
What has put me off from doing that, is the unnecessary arguing and hyper-analysing every single post.
Rgds
I joined this forum a few weeks ago. I intended to post every so often.
What has put me off from doing that, is the unnecessary arguing and hyper-analysing every single post.
Rgds
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, no reasonable person could find fault with any of that...frankly, if he makes some of the mistakes (and behaves in some of the ways) I perceived Harry to have done so, then I'll be right there with you.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
=D>
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
First off, brilliant name...remarkably akin to the sort of cheeky good humor displayed by some of GG's more legendary postees!
Secondly, apologies for my role in that, especially here, we really are half-decent at the end of it all, so feel free to post views and opinions. I think you'll generally find that most people are happy to discuss, and debate, in a respectful manner.
Thanks,
Steff
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
not sure why you have to apologise? there is a forum for every type of spurs fan
he'd be more happy on COYS
am not even sure why he felt the need to even post? shame he doesnt like the culture here but hey.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
you 2 can't even agree on that ! :lol:
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
:lol:you 2 can't even agree on that ! :lol:
have to say this made me laugh
thanks man
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
For me the issue is not being a Harry fan or foe, its the fact that as soon as someone decides to categorise you as such they start arguing with an extreme and polarised version of you and what you post. Every comment is subject to not being read, in context of discussion, but read in context of what the reader wants to see/what they attribute to you as a charicature of your stance.
My views on Harry were simple, I thought he was good, I thought he could have done better, I thought he had peaked.
And African, one thing you dont seem to consider in your stance on AVB (or on treating AVB the same was as Harry was as some tit for tat exercise) is that Harry had 4 full seasons (save 8 games) to establish himself and develop that side. To build and evolve it.
For me he failed to play a slightly longer game and ultimately paid the price for his expensive short term view (well described by Jordinho).
Season 1 - I do honestly believe any decent manager would have dragged us out of that with relative ease. It wasnt a perfect squad but it was a good one, and the consequent £40m splurge in January was more than enough to put it straight. That said, Harry exceeded my expectations. I also found it very refreshing that he was spotting and fixing obvious holes in the squad we had been screaming for for some time (Palacios for example). Although I was unsure of buys like Keane, I had faith in Harry.
Season 2 - Whats not to like? Harry was outstanding, simply put. He instilled a winning mentality in that team. We started picking off our rivals. Our defense set records, and we started to play really good stuff. When it came to the last handdful of must win games I actually had faith we would do it. Incredible season.
Season 3 - The CL run was excitement end to end, with some magnificent results - though I did feel we were naive at times. I was overall delighted with the fact we took to it though, we werent overcome by the occasion and we did ourselves proud. In the league I began to have concerns, and the late season collapse cemented them. I started to fear we were over reliant on certain players and lacked longer term objectivity. That summer I raised these concerns. Never said to sack Harry, but that I wanted to see more from him - having had at this point 3 seasons this team should have started to be moulded for the future as well as now, to consolidate its new status.
Season 4 - Done to death. Ultimately a failure in terms of the position we put ourselves in. Disappointed it took buys on August 31st to have the team working properly. Delighted with the consequent form. Disappointed at the lack of established playing style/ability to cope without certain players. Pleased we managed through Redknapps surgery without incident. Pleased we did ok through his court case. Disgusted with how we collapsed when the FA came knocking. 4th is always going to be a success for Spurs, but in this case it was a disappointing one.
And then came this summer. I have long maintained this summer would be busy and that the following season would be transitional (to a degree at least) because of the nature of the squad Harry had composed. This was my greatest concern, actually look at what was left after 4 seasons and 7 windows.
I was at this point convinced we needed better than Harry, but even then when pressed couldnt say "Sack Harry" because I couldnt follow it up with "And replace him with....". Not in any way that the argument would stack up. I think this is because despite the fact I felt Redknapp had run his course he had done so well it would take something pretty special to replace him.
Levy took the choice before I could comitt. I believe these things played a large part, but also that Harry was the architect of his own downfall through his power plays over the contract and hypocrisy over the slump.
So along comes AVB. There is a lot to like about him, there are things to hold concern over. I dont think its unfair that people have reservations. I do think though that he is getting a really rough ride on here, not because of 'reservations' but because he had the audacity to replace Harry (or Saint Harry, in some quarters, such as the polarised arguments have somehow deified him for some) and also because of an exaggerated view of his "catastrophic" Chelsea stint. I dont think he is getting support right now because people are holding onto anymosity over Redknapp, which while maybe understandable is just really really sad.
AVB is the manager of Tottenham Hotspur. The club we support, or at least should do. How about just supporting him for a while, cheer the team on, build them up when they are down, use all the positivity possible to will them to results? Or, if that isnt possible, how about just NOT being a groaner, a booer and a negative influence?
Its far to early to know how well, or not, AVB will do - but it is never to early to influence it - for better or worse.
Ultimately his Spurs career is 3 games old (with an incomplete squad). Harrys was 4 seasons. If you want to treat AVB as people treated Harry, try starting at the beginnig when people were sceptical but were won over (as a manager, if not a man).
My views on Harry were simple, I thought he was good, I thought he could have done better, I thought he had peaked.
And African, one thing you dont seem to consider in your stance on AVB (or on treating AVB the same was as Harry was as some tit for tat exercise) is that Harry had 4 full seasons (save 8 games) to establish himself and develop that side. To build and evolve it.
For me he failed to play a slightly longer game and ultimately paid the price for his expensive short term view (well described by Jordinho).
Season 1 - I do honestly believe any decent manager would have dragged us out of that with relative ease. It wasnt a perfect squad but it was a good one, and the consequent £40m splurge in January was more than enough to put it straight. That said, Harry exceeded my expectations. I also found it very refreshing that he was spotting and fixing obvious holes in the squad we had been screaming for for some time (Palacios for example). Although I was unsure of buys like Keane, I had faith in Harry.
Season 2 - Whats not to like? Harry was outstanding, simply put. He instilled a winning mentality in that team. We started picking off our rivals. Our defense set records, and we started to play really good stuff. When it came to the last handdful of must win games I actually had faith we would do it. Incredible season.
Season 3 - The CL run was excitement end to end, with some magnificent results - though I did feel we were naive at times. I was overall delighted with the fact we took to it though, we werent overcome by the occasion and we did ourselves proud. In the league I began to have concerns, and the late season collapse cemented them. I started to fear we were over reliant on certain players and lacked longer term objectivity. That summer I raised these concerns. Never said to sack Harry, but that I wanted to see more from him - having had at this point 3 seasons this team should have started to be moulded for the future as well as now, to consolidate its new status.
Season 4 - Done to death. Ultimately a failure in terms of the position we put ourselves in. Disappointed it took buys on August 31st to have the team working properly. Delighted with the consequent form. Disappointed at the lack of established playing style/ability to cope without certain players. Pleased we managed through Redknapps surgery without incident. Pleased we did ok through his court case. Disgusted with how we collapsed when the FA came knocking. 4th is always going to be a success for Spurs, but in this case it was a disappointing one.
And then came this summer. I have long maintained this summer would be busy and that the following season would be transitional (to a degree at least) because of the nature of the squad Harry had composed. This was my greatest concern, actually look at what was left after 4 seasons and 7 windows.
I was at this point convinced we needed better than Harry, but even then when pressed couldnt say "Sack Harry" because I couldnt follow it up with "And replace him with....". Not in any way that the argument would stack up. I think this is because despite the fact I felt Redknapp had run his course he had done so well it would take something pretty special to replace him.
Levy took the choice before I could comitt. I believe these things played a large part, but also that Harry was the architect of his own downfall through his power plays over the contract and hypocrisy over the slump.
So along comes AVB. There is a lot to like about him, there are things to hold concern over. I dont think its unfair that people have reservations. I do think though that he is getting a really rough ride on here, not because of 'reservations' but because he had the audacity to replace Harry (or Saint Harry, in some quarters, such as the polarised arguments have somehow deified him for some) and also because of an exaggerated view of his "catastrophic" Chelsea stint. I dont think he is getting support right now because people are holding onto anymosity over Redknapp, which while maybe understandable is just really really sad.
AVB is the manager of Tottenham Hotspur. The club we support, or at least should do. How about just supporting him for a while, cheer the team on, build them up when they are down, use all the positivity possible to will them to results? Or, if that isnt possible, how about just NOT being a groaner, a booer and a negative influence?
Its far to early to know how well, or not, AVB will do - but it is never to early to influence it - for better or worse.
Ultimately his Spurs career is 3 games old (with an incomplete squad). Harrys was 4 seasons. If you want to treat AVB as people treated Harry, try starting at the beginnig when people were sceptical but were won over (as a manager, if not a man).
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Then go elsewhere. There are plenty of posters dropping off of here because of the way it has become, if its not to your taste then move along to find somewhere you like. Im very tempted to do just that myself.
Mattilda Collywobs
Phil Gray
Hi,
Please don't misunderstand - it does appear to be an interesting forum, albeit one lacking what I'd perceive to be a cohesive debate. There are lots of arguments, many of which seem historical, biased or irrelevant; all of which comes across as very intimidating, from an immediate outsider anyway. I've no idea about the history of the forum, so can't compare 'now with then'.
Rgds
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Dont take my post the wrong way, it wasnt intended as aggressive at all. Simply a point of fact, if you dont like it - find one you do! I would imagine, in all honesty, you have seen enough to decide already.
Ive been on here for donkeys and dont believe it to be the same as it was, and thats at this point a bad thing. Hence the fact I may well take that advise myself.
Ive been on here for donkeys and dont believe it to be the same as it was, and thats at this point a bad thing. Hence the fact I may well take that advise myself.
Crawley
Board Legend
=D>
Everything I tried to say earlier, but in a lot more words.
And I know there are those who will disagree with this post, but it is a well written, well thought out piece. No forcing of opinion down others throats, no shouting down, just an honest viewpoint.
Well done.
(does that sound patronizing?....sorry.....:-#)
Good point
AVB says we're going to challenge for trophies = he promised things he didn't deliver (yes, the Barclays Premier League 2012/13 season is 3 games long)
AVB says we're not going to challenge for trophies = lacks ambition, doesn't appreciate the squad
AVB says Lloris must earn his spot = clueless bozo, doesn't make use of a great new signing
AVB says Lloris is no.1 = clueless bozo, drops in-form Brad for weird foreign sounding name
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