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****OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs WOOLWICH ARSEnal****

scaramanga said:
So as Walker you'd leave Dawson against a quick dribbler of the ball, running at pace towards goal?

Dawson needed cover there. Either Lennon needed to track back faster to allow Walker in or we needed a DM to drop and provide extra cover.
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Walker tries to get close to Cazorla and Gnabry skips past Dawson people would be having a go at Walker for not coming inside to cover I think.

He could have done better, but it was a difficult situation and a split second decision. He gets really close to cutting out the pass.
 
scaramanga said:
So as Walker you'd leave Dawson against a quick dribbler of the ball, running at pace towards goal?

Dawson needed cover there. Either Lennon needed to track back faster to allow Walker in or we needed a DM to drop and provide extra cover.
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Yep. Dawson has cover. Rose has quite rightly tucked in and picked up Walcott which leaves chiriches free as cover.

Gnarby is running across the pitch and Dawson being a proffessional centre half should be able to jockey him in a way that forces him to continue across the pitch. Walker gets himself tucked back in and the pass can't be made without it being a wonder ball.

You're right that if Lennon had tracked back faster or Bentelab (I think) had picked up the man that Walker seemed worried about initially then they probably wouldn't have scored. But the situation was still rescueable had Walker not committed himself and basically invited Gnarby to make the pass. IMO of course!
 
braineclipse said:
And what in your ideal scenario is Rose's job? Considering it's his man on the ball in the first place is he really supposed to stand wide left on his own marking no one?

Chiriches did close down Gnabry, as soon as he realized Rose was doing exactly what you would have him do - nothing.
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Stay in his position (which he did) and double up on Walcott if needs be. It's his man on the ball...but his man is going infield and only a macaronic full back would follow him when he's aware the player is moving to the central defenders area.

Chiriches makes a weak attempt to close down Gnarby after pausing and being hesitant at first. That cost us.
 
braineclipse said:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Walker tries to get close to Cazorla and Gnabry skips past Dawson people would be having a go at Walker for not coming inside to cover I think.

He could have done better, but it was a difficult situation and a split second decision. He gets really close to cutting out the pass.
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That's it for me really.

As you stated above, had Rose picked up earlier, then the defence doesn't have to shift across. If there's a DM to drop deep or head out wide to Carzorla, the defence doesn't have to shift across.

Dawson had to decide between dropping off and getting tight (either are equally valid/wrong) and my only criticism of him is that he seemed slightly indecisive at first. Walker then has to cover or stick with his man - I think by that point the chances of Arsenal getting a good shot away are incredibly likely anyway so he covers the immediate danger first and hopes that his pace will allow him to get in front of Carzorla if required.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
Yep. Dawson has cover. Rose has quite rightly tucked in and picked up Walcott which leaves chiriches free as cover.

Gnarby is running across the pitch and Dawson being a proffessional centre half should be able to jockey him in a way that forces him to continue across the pitch. Walker gets himself tucked back in and the pass can't be made without it being a wonder ball.

You're right that if Lennon had tracked back faster or Bentelab (I think) had picked up the man that Walker seemed worried about initially then they probably wouldn't have scored. But the situation was still rescueable had Walker not committed himself and basically invited Gnarby to make the pass. IMO of course!
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I think that if Walker stays wide Gnabry will get past Dawson easily. The cover is only on the other side and Gnabry is running away from that direction. He's quick and tricky, and Dawson's (and most defenders') weakness is being squared up against pacy forwards.

If Walker stays wide then I think Gnabry ends up with a shooting opportunity anyway and a more central one than Carzorla had.
 
Kingdawson said:
Stay in his position (which he did) and double up on Walcott if needs be. It's his man on the ball...but his man is going infield and only a macaronic full back would follow him when he's aware the player is moving to the central defenders area.

Chiriches makes a weak attempt to close down Gnarby after pausing and being hesitant at first. That cost us.
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We're up against a counter attack. Why should the left back stay in his position with no credible threat down that side?

When Gnabry receives the ball he's in between Rose and Chiriches, pretty much right in between them, in line with the line from the 18 yard box. And there's absolutely no threat down the outside on that flank. Rose closing down Gnabry seems like the obvious right choice in that situation to me. Rose leaving Gnabry to Chiriches leaves us 3 against 3 in front of goal, never a good situation. Why is that preferable to Rose pressuring the opponent that is closest to him and closest to his side leaving us 4 against 3?

Rose tracked Januzai further inside than that when we played United. When an inside forward cuts inside like that the full back has a job to do, leaving that player for the centre halves to deal with on their own is to me completely irresponsible. I would be shocked if Rose looks at that and thinks "yeah, job well done on my part".
 
scaramanga said:
I think that if Walker stays wide Gnabry will get past Dawson easily. The cover is only on the other side and Gnabry is running away from that direction. He's quick and tricky, and Dawson's (and most defenders') weakness is being squared up against pacy forwards.

If Walker stays wide then I think Gnabry ends up with a shooting opportunity anyway and a more central one than Carzorla had.
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He wasn't squared up though. Gnarby was running across the pitch. As a defender Dawson should be capable of keeping him running that way.

Chiriches was on the other side, but Gnarby would have had to change direction in order to beat Dawson, changing direction means slowing down and slowing down would have given Chiriches the chance to get across.

If he ends up with a shooting opportunity, he'd still have to do alot to score from there.
 
braineclipse said:
We're up against a counter attack. Why should the left back stay in his position with no credible threat down that side?

When Gnabry receives the ball he's in between Rose and Chiriches, pretty much right in between them, in line with the line from the 18 yard box. And there's absolutely no threat down the outside on that flank. Rose closing down Gnabry seems like the obvious right choice in that situation to me. Rose leaving Gnabry to Chiriches leaves us 3 against 3 in front of goal, never a good situation. Why is that preferable to Rose pressuring the opponent that is closest to him and closest to his side leaving us 4 against 3?

Rose tracked Januzai further inside than that when we played United. When an inside forward cuts inside like that the full back has a job to do, leaving that player for the centre halves to deal with on their own is to me completely irresponsible. I would be shocked if Rose looks at that and thinks "yeah, job well done on my part".
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Rose does have another option - to pass his man off to Chiriches and then loop around the back of our defence to be a free 'presser' wherever required (as long as we're not trying to play offside).

The one thing he shouldn't do is pass his man off to Chiriches and then stand there marking space.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
He wasn't squared up though. Gnarby was running across the pitch. As a defender Dawson should be capable of keeping him running that way.

Chiriches was on the other side, but Gnarby would have had to change direction in order to beat Dawson, changing direction means slowing down and slowing down would have given Chiriches the chance to get across.

If he ends up with a shooting opportunity, he'd still have to do alot to score from there.
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Cant' he just outpace Dawson in that same direction? Or knock it past him and beat him for pace in that direction?

There's no way I'd leave Dawson against Gnabry or Walcott in that situation. Giroud? Not a problem, but not one of those two.
 
So from what I am reading above it looks like all four defenders plus maybe 2 or 3 of our midfielders are culpable to some degree for this goal.
 
Mumorn said:
Nope, but everyone and his cat is being blamed at the moment :lol:
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I have to admit that when i saw the goal I thought blimey that was an amazing finish from that angle. Then on the replay i was a bit dissapointed that Hugo sold out so much on the near post and did not wait for the shot. But I put it more down to his body moving across the goal and not be able to re-adjust than him choosing to dive early or in the wrong direction.
 
i did raise an eyebrow when I saw the replay, Lloris certainly sold himself early, even more so considering that 99/100 the shot is gonna go across goal rather than near post
 
Mumorn said:
Nope, but everyone and his cat is being blamed at the moment :lol:
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Alright, I only asked because it was mentioned on Norwegian telly at least that he could have stayed upright longer. I think it's unfair, Walker was powering in to get a block in covering the far post. Gambling on one side as Cazorla struck the ball seems like a decent enough plan to me.
 
To be fair - Lloris did go down a touch early - no? or am I just being unfair?

Im not in this whole debate about blaming because ultimately its a team game although there are things that occur which has a subsequent knock on effect on the rest of the team
 
In my opinion, Walker could have prevented the first goal by conceding a freekick on Gnabry before he passed it off to Cazorla. He must have known that someone is making a run behind him.
 
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