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****OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs WOOLWICH ARSEnal****

Jordinho said:
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Dawson and Walker sharing the blame for me, Dawson oblivious to what's happening behind him as usual and Walker drifting in too centrally. Chiriches and Rose pick up the two Arsenal players on their side of the pitch. Our two CMs should perhaps take some of the blame as well.
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Thing is, there is no reason for Daws to initially head backwards! If that initial ball from Gnatboy gets played through, the lad's offside if Daws maintains his position and only shifts across…and given who has the better viewing perspective, Daws sees where Walker's going, so just keep going WIDE and try to snuff the wide threat! Daws is simply turned all over the place there…yes you could argue that Walker's run is too far inside BUT he sees Daws and is (IMO) trying to cover him. In that final part of the move I hang it on Daws 100% personally.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I know the future is bright, I believe in Tim to be honest. I think he knows what he is doing, and I think we have a good squad that is still well within touch with our top 4 objective.

But I'm talking specifically about yesterday's performance. I'm not saying that because we lost to a top side we have no hope for the rest of the season, I'm merely querying why people think yesterday was, objectively, pretty good. I do think we were rubbish. Arsenal looked far and away better than us, and I don't think we had any redeeming qualities from the performance. I certainly don't think that it was much better than the 1-0 - not that we were really any good in that game, apart from at least being able to impose the possession on Arsenal. Yesterday we imposed nothing - not possession, not a threat on the break because the passing let us down, and rubbish defensively when it mattered.

If yesterday we created 'plenty of chances and half chances' then I'm sorry, but we've been doing it all season where people have said that we haven't created any. It can't go both ways. Aside from the Eriksen chance, I've not had anyone give me a chance that would have 'counted' in the analysis of the previous games earlier in the season. The rest of the chances would have been laughed off two months ago as an example of relying on turgid attacking play.

Again, I'm not worried about the future of the club. I'm not over-reacting based on this loss. I understand the reasons for it, I don't blame the manager and we're still on track to do what we need to do. But the performance was rubbish IMO, and I just find it strange that people are pretty happy with this while absolutely slaughtering much better performances earlier in the season. Taking away the fact it's a cup game, and talking purely about the performance, I really don't think it was good. Certainly not as good as some of the performances I defended earlier in the season, to be told how turgid they were.
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Off the top of my head:

1. Eriksen one on one. he should score

2. Ade brings the ball down brilliantly 6 yards out then fluffs his shot. Having done the hard part, he should score

3 and 4. Soldado two shots screwed wide from virtually identical positions, should have put them on target at least

5. Two near post flicks from corners, just wide from Soldado and Dawson.

6. Free kick from Eriksen - from virtually the exact spot he scored from recently.

7. Shot from Rosé trying to recreate his last NLD glory.

8. Penalty shout for handball

9. Penalty shout for barge on Walker

On other days one or more of these could have counted and would have changed the entire complexion of the game. We did well in an open game against much superior opposition on the day. No disgrace there IMO. Disappointing, of course , but certainly not Tergid. A very interesting and exciting game not the sort of rubbish we were served up earlier this season.

PS apparently we WON the possession battle, so you should be happy.
 
thfcsteff said:
Thing is, there is no reason for Daws to initially head backwards! If that initial ball from Gnatboy gets played through, the lad's offside if Daws maintains his position and only shifts across…and given who has the better viewing perspective, Daws sees where Walker's going, so just keep going WIDE and try to snuff the wide threat! Daws is simply turned all over the place there…yes you could argue that Walker's run is too far inside BUT he sees Daws and is (IMO) trying to cover him. In that final part of the move I hang it on Daws 100% personally.
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How can the blame be put at dawson's door? He tracks walnut's run as he is supposed to do. Then goes to a player running into his zone - are we expecting that he should be out wide right? If that was arsenal there would be a midfielder helping out the centre backs so walker can hold is position out wide. Ours are just casually jogging back watching the play. My only criticism of Tim so far has been the gap between the defence and midfield but I guess he has been focussing on attack. The agenda vs a great servant of our club is shocking.
 
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Robspur12 said:
How can the blame be put at dawson's door? He tracks walnut's run as he is supposed to do. Then goes to a player running into his zone - are we expecting that he should be out wide right? If that was arsenal there would be a midfielder helping out the centre backs so walker can hold is position out wide. Ours are just casually jogging back watching the play. My only criticism of Tim so far has been the gap between the defence and midfield but I guess he has been focussing on attack. The agenda vs a great servant of our club is shocking.
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Put simply, he gets sucked into it. In that breaking situation he should either

a) hold-off and jockey the runner
b) step up QUICKLY and then walnut is offside

given that he got caught out by the speed of the oncoming attack (not the first time) then seeing that walker is coming, yes, I would argue he SHOULD look to cover wide given where Walker was heading.

I absolutely agree that one of Bentaleb, Dembele or Azza (especially on the cover for Walker) should've been back. They weren't. So what is Daws doing committing himself like that, getting caught and then being left scrambling to try somehow to correct a mistake.

That was my take on it, there again, in fairness, I was afraid of Daws being caught out like this and hoped mightily that if it were to happen, Lloris could cover and avoid being sent-off. Vertonghen would not have been done like that IMO.
 
Jordinho said:
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Dawson and Walker sharing the blame for me, Dawson oblivious to what's happening behind him as usual and Walker drifting in too centrally. Chiriches and Rose pick up the two Arsenal players on their side of the pitch. Our two CMs should perhaps take some of the blame as well.
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Where exactly in that Gif did Chiriches pick up an Arsenal player? the part where he freezes for a few seconds, lets Walcott run past him, and then runs a few steps to Gnarby without doing anything?

Dawson is so oblivious at "what's happening behind him" that he tracks Walcott's run as well as make an attempt to close down Gnarby when he sees Chiriches is doing NOTHING...and Dawson gets the blame?
 
Dawson has to track walnuts run as he's run from an onside position. Chiriches on the other hand goes to gnabry then stops. Our midfield instead of tracking back are ambling back away from play this forces Walker central to help out Dawson. IMO there is no blame on Walker or Dawson for the goal. However take nothing away from the finish you can bet we wouldn't have.
 
I think both Dawson and Chiriches does alright actually having looked at that again and again.

How early should Chiriches leave his position to mark Rose's man? So early that he leaves a massive gap between himself and Dawson for Walcott to run in behind? Not for me. Look at the gif again, when Gnabry receives the ball the distance to Rose and Chiriches is about the same, yet despite Gnabry playing on their right and there being no other threat down that side people want Chiriches to leave sprint out to deal with Gnabry? To me Rose should have been closer to Gnabry in the first place and then when he's not he should be the one closing Gnabry down allowing the other defenders to continue defending their areas. Danger would have been averted I think.

Dawson tracks Walcott, could try to play him offside, but with Gnabry not under real pressure it's a very risky strategy. I think he does fine.
 
I also think Walker is partly initially drawn more centrally as there is an Arsenal midfielder coming forward to begin with, not Cazorla. If we had a better positioned DM here who knows how that may have altered things.

It's an excellent manipulation of space from Arsenal either way
 
The goal was 100% Walkers fault. Yes Dawson and Chiriches didn't make the best job of it and both dropped off when one should have pressured the ball. But had Walker not been sucked into the ball it would have made the pass to Corzola much more difficult and even if he had managed to thread it through Walker would have been close enough to get himself goal side.

He should have ran directly towards our goal in a straight line from where his starting postion was in the gif above.
 
Their first goal was - alas- only a matter of time. On their previous attack, which drew a good save from Hugo, Cazorla was in place, unmarked, to take the pass but Walcott preferred to shoot himself. No idea why Walker came so far over but both times he left acres of space on our right side for Cazorla.
 
Not that I am going to blame Lennon as it really isn't his job, but I thought he was poor defensively on Saturday.
 
The problem was a lack of a DM in our side. A DM would have dropped deep (somewhere in that massive gap between our defence and midfield) and allowed Walker to stay wide.

Dawson and Walker were both left to decide between two options each - either of which would likely have ended up as a goal scoring chance.
 
If Walker tracks Cazorla like he was supposed to then the other fella with the ball has no pass on and is forced to shoot.
 
scaramanga said:
The problem was a lack of a DM in our side. A DM would have dropped deep (somewhere in that massive gap between our defence and midfield) and allowed Walker to stay wide.

Dawson and Walker were both left to decide between two options each - either of which would likely have ended up as a goal scoring chance.
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That was more to do with Chiriches deciding on not doing anything and being caught in no mans land imo.

Ideally Dawson would follow the runner, Chiriches would close down Gnarby immediately, and Walker would stay on his side to deal with Cazorla. Chiriches doing diddly squat let to a chain reaction..ie Dawson then running towards Gnarby after already tracking Walcott, Chiriches ummm doing nothing and Walker also closing down Gnarby, thinking Dawson was not going to get to him (which he wasn't).
 
Maybe the players are just getting used to a new system. Theyve been playing the majority of the season under AVB who favoured 3 in midfield and usually someone who plays deep who would have been responsible for that. Which is why it looks to me Chiriches and Dawson both didn't know EXACTLY what to do. It doesn't really explain why Walker is so far out of position but you put a DM in there and it potentially stops the threat.
 
Yiddo said:
If Walker tracks Cazorla like he was supposed to then the other fella with the ball has no pass on and is forced to shoot.
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So as Walker you'd leave Dawson against a quick dribbler of the ball, running at pace towards goal?

Dawson needed cover there. Either Lennon needed to track back faster to allow Walker in or we needed a DM to drop and provide extra cover.
 
Kingdawson said:
That was more to do with Chiriches deciding on not doing anything and being caught in no mans land imo.

Ideally Dawson would follow the runner, Chiriches would close down Gnarby immediately, and Walker would stay on his side to deal with Cazorla. Chiriches doing diddly squat let to a chain reaction..ie Dawson then running towards Gnarby after already tracking Walcott, Chiriches ummm doing nothing and Walker also closing down Gnarby, thinking Dawson was not going to get to him (which he wasn't).
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And what in your ideal scenario is Rose's job? Considering it's his man on the ball in the first place is he really supposed to stand wide left on his own marking no one?

Chiriches did close down Gnabry, as soon as he realized Rose was doing exactly what you would have him do - nothing.
 
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