*** OMT: Tottenham Hotspur vs. Wolves ***

[billyiddo]

What is the point of comparing points totals in previous seasons? All teams in the league are completely at completely different levels from then.The facts are we are six points off top spot, coming up to half way in the season. When Poch got sacked we were a couple of points outside the relegation spots and didn’t have a coronavirus situation to deal with muddling up two seasons. You’re entitled to criticise whatever you see fit to, but those stats are pretty meaningless....

It's a simple reference point - feel free to ignore it. Where do you see improvements in our play?

 

[Bishop]

Our problem is we are a counter attacking team that are brick at counter attacking. Yeah we started very well and scoring goals for fun but now that everyone knows how we are playing we are forced to just hit it long and hope for the best.

We need to start dominating smaller teams not sitting back and allowing them 80 minutes to create a chance.

As I said to Bedfordspurs this week, we are very predictable.

 

[harr1984]

It's a simple reference point - feel free to ignore it. Where do you see improvements in our play?

It’s not a simple reference point, it’s completely irrelevant. Considering the way every team is taking points off each other practically every top team have less points during corona season than before it so to compare a coachs stats who didn’t manage under these strange conditions is pointless.

I never said I see vast improvements in our play, but considering how different in style Mourinho is I wasn’t expecting overnight success and I’m not getting my knickers in a twist over our current situation. We can all agree there are areas to improve on attacking wise primarily, yet we are still within touching distance of reaching fair objectives of top 4 and a trophy. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt it’s that patience is a virtue especially in football,and from me it’s a let’s wait and see what happens. If we are here in a years time with the same issues then I’d be far more inclined to say it’s just not working....

 

[billyiddo]

It’s not a simple reference point, it’s completely irrelevant. Considering the way every team is taking points off each other practically every top team have less points during corona season than before it so to compare a coachs stats who didn’t manage under these strange conditions is pointless.

I never said I see vast improvements in our play, but considering how different in style Mourinho is I wasn’t expecting overnight success and I’m not getting my knickers in a twist over our current situation. We can all agree there are areas to improve on attacking wise primarily, yet we are still within touching distance of reaching fair objectives of top 4 and a trophy. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt it’s that patience is a virtue especially in football,and from me it’s a let’s wait and see what happens. If we are here in a years time with the same issues then I’d be far more inclined to say it’s just not working....

I don't want to get in to a pedantic argument over the relevance of a commonly used yardstick when comparing across different managers/seasons. Like i said feel free to ignore it if you wish.

We're far away from 'touching distance' of finishing top 4 at this stage of the season considering the number of teams providing competition and where our tactical deficiencies lay - if there were some signs we were developing a way of playing against teams that sit back then i would be fairly confidrnt of where we are going to end up this season but considering the manager is sticking with tactics that aren't working in games that will make up the majority of our fixtures then it raises big concerns.

Previous manager was being called out on trying the same thing repeatedly that wasn't working and playing tactics that didn't suit the players available, we seem to be in the same situation here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't want to get in to a pedantic argument over the relevance of a commonly used yardstick when comparing across different managers/seasons. Like i said feel free to ignore it if you wish.

We're far away from 'touching distance' of finishing top 4 at this stage of the season considering the number of teams providing competition and where our tactical deficiencies lay - if there were some signs we were developing a way of playing against teams that sit back then i would be fairly confidrnt of where we are going to end up this season but considering the manager is sticking with tactics that aren't working in games that will make up the majority of our fixtures then it raises big concerns.

Previous manager was being called out on trying the same thing repeatedly that wasn't working and playing tactics that didn't suit the players available, we seem to be in the same situation here.

We’re 5th aren’t we? That’s touching distance and then some

 

[billyiddo]

We’re 5th aren’t we? That’s touching distance and then some

Not when the league finishes in 5 months time.


We're in touching distance of being in the top 4 at the end of december - however with the fixtures remaining and our regression in overall form and inability to take games to opponents that sit back (majority of our opponents) then we are a long way from top 4 in May. Let's see some actual fudging managment from the guy and develop some attacking play and then we can say whether we are close to top 4 or not.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It’s not a simple reference point, it’s completely irrelevant. Considering the way every team is taking points off each other practically every top team have less points during corona season than before it so to compare a coachs stats who didn’t manage under these strange conditions is pointless.

I never said I see vast improvements in our play, but considering how different in style Mourinho is I wasn’t expecting overnight success and I’m not getting my knickers in a twist over our current situation. We can all agree there are areas to improve on attacking wise primarily, yet we are still within touching distance of reaching fair objectives of top 4 and a trophy. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt it’s that patience is a virtue especially in football,and from me it’s a let’s wait and see what happens. If we are here in a years time with the same issues then I’d be far more inclined to say it’s just not working....

I’ll be honest. I can’t take another year of this brick football without results. It’s sucking the joy out of watching football for me. Jose gets less time than another manager if this is his game plan. He’s a results manager, either do what it says on the tin or he’s out. So far, results have been decent but they’re getting worse and teams have figured out the game plan. That’s a bad place for Jose to be.

 

[harr1984]

I don't want to get in to a pedantic argument over the relevance of a commonly used yardstick when comparing across different managers/seasons. Like i said feel free to ignore it if you wish.

We're far away from 'touching distance' of finishing top 4 at this stage of the season considering the number of teams providing competition and where our tactical deficiencies lay - if there were some signs we were developing a way of playing against teams that sit back then i would be fairly confidrnt of where we are going to end up this season but considering the manager is sticking with tactics that aren't working in games that will make up the majority of our fixtures then it raises big concerns.

Previous manager was being called out on trying the same thing repeatedly that wasn't working and playing tactics that didn't suit the players available, we seem to be in the same situation here.

You don’t think we are within touching distance of the top 4 when we were 3rd until conceding that goal? I get your POV, I just don’t think the situation is as dire as you are portraying, we are going through a bad patch like every other team and we will go again. Just agree to disagree I guess....

 

[billyiddo]

You don’t think we are within touching distance of the top 4 when we were 3rd until conceding that goal? I get your POV, I just don’t think the situation is as dire as you are portraying, we are going through a bad patch like every other team and we will go again. Just agree to disagree I guess....

Yes, original point you made was top 4 wrt to our goals for the season, which means top 4 in May, not December. Long way to go and the signs are our tactics are limited and being found out. If you think it's just a bad patch of form fair enough, but inthink you're burying your head in the sand and unless we actually develop a new and better way of playing on the front foot we will waste the season.

 

[harr1984]

Yes, original point you made was top 4 wrt to our goals for the season, which means top 4 in May, not December.

Indeed, and we are still on the edges of the top 4 even during our bad patch. It’s unrealistic to expect this to continue for months on end, we are still on course - no teams in this league are good enough to sustain their form for a long period month after month. What makes us so great that we shouldn’t expect a couple of dips in results throughout the season?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Indeed, and we are still on the edges of the top 4 even during our bad patch. It’s unrealistic to expect this to continue for months on end, we are still on course - no teams in this league are good enough to sustain their form for a long period month after month. What makes us so great that we shouldn’t expect a couple of dips in results throughout the season?

That’s fair comment and I say that as someone who is critical of Mourinho. The concern for us is that we look so one dimensional, we look so easy to stop that it’s hard to see us getting the results needed unless Jose changes things.

 

[billyiddo]

Indeed, and we are still on the edges of the top 4 even during our bad patch. It’s unrealistic to expect this to continue for months on end, we are still on course - no teams in this league are good enough to sustain their form for a long period month after month. What makes us so great that we shouldn’t expect a couple of dips in results throughout the season?

You may think it's just a poor patch but in reality it's just our inability to play on the front catching up with us, which stretches back to the restart last season. We had a period where we took a high percentage of our chances and wasn't making individual errors - it was unsustainable.

 

[StephenH]

I’ll be honest. I can’t take another year of this brick football without results. It’s sucking the joy out of watching football for me. Jose gets less time than another manager if this is his game plan. He’s a results manager, either do what it says on the tin or he’s out. So far, results have been decent but they’re getting worse and teams have figured out the game plan. That’s a bad place for Jose to be.

A good post but I do not think people here want to hear this honest observation, which I can just understand because no one likes bad news. There was always a chance we would end up with the United version Jose but without the players and or the finances to compensate.
As for 'Suck the joy' this is why I don't just watch Spurs. I would find it too depressing at times like these and enjoy my football too much to risk it.

 

[DeanoAustin]

You may think it's just a poor patch but in reality it's just our inability to play on the front catching up with us, which stretches back to the restart last season. We had a period where we took a high percentage of our chances and wasn't making individual errors - it was unsustainable.

I saw an article on The Athletic which said “Spurs will regress based on Xg” and I thought you clueless bunch of tossers, don’t you realise that if we have to, we’re capable of creating more chances. And I’m still not sure if that’s the case or not. We got back on the front foot against Wolves and Palace but it was too late by that point. Against Leicester, we were fudging poison and created nothing. So either The Athletic are right or sitting on a 1-0 lead is beyond brainless because if the other team equalise late, you’re screwed.

 

[billyiddo]

I saw an article on The Athletic which said “Spurs will regress based on Xg” and I thought you clueless bunch of tossers, don’t you realise that if we have to, we’re capable of creating more chances. And I’m still not sure if that’s the case or not. We got back on the front foot against Wolves and Palace but it was too late by that point. Against Leicester, we were fudging poison and created nothing. So either The Athletic are right or sitting on a 1-0 lead is beyond brainless because if the other team equalise late, you’re screwed.

They're right and what's most annoying is that it's entirely self inflicted - no reason why we can't put these matches to bed other than our own managers cowardice

 

[braineclipse]

We're 6 points better off in Joses first 40 games than Pochs last 40 - considering the latters form got him sacked that doesn't speak of much improvement in quantifiable terms, wrt what i actually see with my own eyes i see that we are harder to beat, that's it. I don't see any attacking/possession improvement on Pochs last year.

Purely talking in terms of Mourinhos time here we have become better defensively (as we now play backs to the wall defensive football) but have regressed dramatically in terms of attacking play - was quite lively in front of goal before the restart, although that's looking ever more like a new manager bounce - we don't even look like we know how to create counter attacking opportunities anymore and when we do they aren't regular enough to result in enough goals.

We sacked our previous manager and are paying his replacement double (?) so he can play all out defense - that's the situation we're in. Forgive me for expecting more

40 games does include some of the games that saw Pochettino get results, though I get your point. The improvement hasn't been massive.

I think our counter attacking has improved, but our play against settled teams hasn't. Though we were inconsistent at best under Pochettino too in that regard we looked overall better.

We have to improve several aspects of our game, that's been clear for a long time, I think we can do that under Mourinho.

 

[billyiddo]

40 games does include some of the games that saw Pochettino get results, though I get your point. The improvement hasn't been massive.

I think our counter attacking has improved, but our play against settled teams hasn't. Though we were inconsistent at best under Pochettino too in that regard we looked overall better.

We have to improve several aspects of our game, that's been clear for a long time, I think we can do that under Mourinho.

Wish i could see some light at the end of the tunnel because I honestly don't see what you are basing that on.

Question - if the person in charge was someone with no track record would you still think we were likely to improve under them based on what you have seen in the time they had been here? If not surely you can see there's more than a bit of blind faith to your position?

 

[StephenH]

Jose Mourinho accuses Tottenham players of lacking 'ambition' after they fail to build on early Tanguy Ndombele opener and don't manage a single shot on target after the 21st minute before letting lead slip late on in 1-1 draw against Wolves

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ng-ambition-let-lead-slip-against-Wolves.html

So it begins!

 

[harr1984]

I’ll be honest. I can’t take another year of this brick football without results. It’s sucking the joy out of watching football for me. Jose gets less time than another manager if this is his game plan. He’s a results manager, either do what it says on the tin or he’s out. So far, results have been decent but they’re getting worse and teams have figured out the game plan. That’s a bad place for Jose to be.

I’m not here to argue against anyone dissatisfied with style of play etc The only reason Im personally willing to give it another season is because he needs longer to recruit fully the personnel he wants (coaches often say they need a few windows,this isn’t a Mourinho specific thing). Secondly I’ve seen Mourinho teams a play a lot mainly Madrid and Chelsea ones and they don’t just park the bus, they offered plenty going forward. Of course he had stellar players to work with, but he didn’t instruct them to just defend when going a goal down and only in specific big games was there a very defensive approach. The vast majority who were here under Poch are still here, so it’s a big change in style and mixing with the new players i personally want to see how it’s panning out in a years time when he has had further time to work on his methods with a squad (hopefully a proper pre season) understanding what he is asking. I just have a feeling we will become better balanced at some point in the not too distant future. And we are still in the mix in all competitions. But I do completely agree we need to do more going forward, judging by Mourinhos comments so does he - and it’s on him to sort out....

 

[DeanoAustin]

I’m not here to argue against anyone dissatisfied with style of play etc The only reason Im personally willing to give it another season is because he needs longer to recruit fully the personnel he wants (coaches often say they need a few windows,this isn’t a Mourinho specific thing). Secondly I’ve seen Mourinho teams a play a lot mainly Madrid and Chelsea ones and they don’t just park the bus, they offered plenty going forward. Of course he had stellar players to work with, but he didn’t instruct them to just defend when going a goal down and only in specific big games was there a very defensive approach. The vast majority who were here under Poch are still here, so it’s a big change in style and mixing with the new players i personally want to see how it’s panning out in a years time when he has had further time to work on his methods with a squad (hopefully a proper pre season) understanding what he is asking. I just have a feeling we will become better balanced at some point in the bit too distant future. And we are still in the mix in all competitions. But I do completely agree we need to do more going forward, judging by Mourinhos comments so does he - and it’s on him to sort out....

You may have said this in your other posts and sorry if you have but what do you think we need in terms of players (who, what positions) to improve us?