***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Everton***

[alekaras]

That's not an accurate summary of what was said.

There's obviously more nuance, yes, but just trying to illustrate some of the black and white reaction we have sometimes.

 

[billyiddo]

There's obviously more nuance, yes, but just trying to illustrate some of the black and white reaction we have sometimes.

Not sure why you used my post to illustrate that point - i thought on the balance of play that a 1 goal margin of defeat was flattering to us, makes it look like we were in the game.

 

[alekaras]

One thing I'm curious about is how Ange's way of playing, once it has fully matured, will make us more solid defensively. I'm not saying make us impossible to score against, but reduce the quality and quantity of chances the opposition gets. I refuse to believe that he thinks outscoring the opposition playing an up and down game is the end all be all.

 

[Muttley]

Genuinely impressive fight back, attitude from the players in difficult circumstances. Not enough to get something from the game, another frustrating disappointment overall. But positives in that performance.

It's these small margins that make the difference. Had we setup well in the first half, this game was for winning. That is on Ange, just like the 2nd half recovery.

2 more areas as well. The 2 penalties not given and Ange ignoring his bench yet again. He only made 2 subs.

We could have had Reggie raiding down the left and covering that entire side. We could have got Porro off that pitch. He was absolutely shattered and offering nothing. We could have thrown one or two of our kids in for the last 10 mins. We had nothing to lose. They would have brought energy to proceedings.

 

[SteveAWOL]

It's these small margins that make the difference. Had we setup well in the first half, this game was for winning. That is on Ange, just like the 2nd half recovery.

2 more areas as well. The 2 penalties not given and Ange ignoring his bench yet again. He only made 2 subs.

We could have had Reggie raiding down the left and covering that entire side. We could have got Porro off that pitch. He was absolutely shattered and offering nothing. We could have thrown one or two of our kids in for the last 10 mins. We had nothing to lose. They would have brought energy to proceedings.

This. Perhaps if we’d got some fresh legs on before the 73rd minute then might’ve salvaged something to atone for that shambolic first half at least.

 

[Bullet]

I’m still flummoxed as to why Postecoglou thought it would be more straightforward to suddenly switch formation to a back 3 than to simply slot Davies in as LCB allowing Gray to move into midfield;

I agree, so I've been pondering this.
I reckon Ange doesn't trust Drags and Davies to progress the ball well enough, so he had Gray playing a bizarre hybrid role where one minute he would be in the back 3 but sometimes he would go bombing forwards. It was Gray's driving run which pulled the Everton defence out of shape, when Son scuffed his shot along the floor. So Gray was not being asked to just sit deep in a 3, he was being asked to be both centre back and #8.

It was almost the last straw for me, as it was such a bizarre and needless set up.
The last straw is dangling by the remaining few fibres.
I want to see some sensible decisions and some FIT LEGS being used.

 

[braineclipse]

One thing I'm curious about is how Ange's way of playing, once it has fully matured, will make us more solid defensively. I'm not saying make us impossible to score against, but reduce the quality and quantity of chances the opposition gets. I refuse to believe that he thinks outscoring the opposition playing an up and down game is the end all be all.

We had a good defensive record at the start of the season. Good pressing with energy, our best defenders on the pitch. Hard work in midfield.

 

[parklane1]

We had a good defensive record at the start of the season. Good pressing with energy, our best defenders on the pitch. Hard work in midfield.

Yep, once we get a proper DM into the team the more consistant our CM/DEFENDERS will become.

 

[Jordinho]

Yep, once we get a proper DM into the team the more consistant our CM/DEFENDERS will become.

We won't do that until we get a different manager.

 

[parklane1]

We won't do that until we get a different manager.

Well i do hope you are wrong because its bleeding obvious that is what we lack more then anything else.

 

[Muttley]

We had a good defensive record at the start of the season. Good pressing with energy, our best defenders on the pitch. Hard work in midfield.

It was never totally clear why though. We had early season games when we had Bents sitting behind Madds and Kulu. We also had Sarr in there with on of Biss or Bents and Madds and Kulu rotating between starting and bench. Was it long enough to think we could see that become the norm, or just one of these short periods where things went our way? It definitely felt like a team that concede less. Not a team that could concede less goals than there are games though. Somewhere between that aspiration and our horrible goals against column of >60 last season. That aspiration would need to come from having 3 forwards with the defensive contribution of a Solanke.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Just watching their second goal. It’s fudging horrific. The press is slow. They stroll through our right side and Gray and Porro are nowhere to be seen.

That’s abysmal for all concerned.

If I remember correctly Gray pushed up to press a player that he was never going to win the ball from (I remember thinking 'oh no' as he pushed up to do it in the game). This is what I am talking about when commenting on us having young players doing their learning of the game in our first team. The players will be better for it in the long term (which means the club will be as well providing we hang on to them) but it does cost quite easily avoidable goals in the interim.

 

[Muttley]

If I remember correctly Gray pushed up to press a player that he was never going to win the ball from (I remember thinking 'oh no' as he pushed up to do it in the game). This is what I am talking about when commenting on us having young players doing their learning of the game in our first team. The players will be better for it in the long term (which means the club will be as well providing we hang on to them) but it does cost quite easily avoidable goals in the interim.

Yeah, Sarr did the same for the Ndiaye goal and then never in a position to recover. Adds to the fuel that if we had 3 forwards who defend from the top as well as Solanke, lots of these little issues can calm down.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yeah, the way Sarr and Gray got bypassed so easily by a simple 1-2 releasing Ndiaye on halfway line then neither busted a gut to track back so the Everton attacker had open space until Dragusin tried to challenge him on the edge of our 18 yard box is disappointing. Porro’s clearly in the red zone for fatigue and so it’s no surprise to see him sauntering back from his stall on halfway line.

Gray also got span around like a top by Calvert-Lewin for their first goal but in his defence he’s never played as RCB in a back 3 for us before.

I've noticed Sarr jogging instead of sprinting a few times recently and that doesn't really seem usual for him. I wonder whether he is currently playing while injured?

 

[parklane1]

If I remember correctly Gray pushed up to press a player that he was never going to win the ball from (I remember thinking 'oh no' as he pushed up to do it in the game). This is what I am talking about when commenting on us having young players doing their learning of the game in our first team. The players will be better for it in the long term (which means the club will be as well providing we hang on to them) but it does cost quite easily avoidable goals in the interim.

Agree, what worried me more was that Gray failed to chase back and slowly walked back. Young kid who will look at that in replys and hopefully learn from it. Not knocking him at all but its a lesson he should learn from.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Your full back has to be in a position there Steff that he can get back and help. All I want from my centre back in that position is to hold the Everton lad up or slow him down to get someone else back to help. But there was no-one near on that right side because Gray and Porro were so high so the Everton lad does a lollipop and drives into the big massive hole. Dragusin can do better but he's not helped by the set-up of the team.

In football, in my view, you will always have mistakes and no perfect system to solve them all. But your system should help to cover some of those mistakes. Ours doesn't. That second goal was unforgivable for me.

In a 3 at the back system I'm not convinced it should be the wing back there. The biggest issue for me was that Gray went and pressed a player he was almost never going to win the ball from that then left us exposed in behind. He is a young player still learning, unfortunately he is doing that learning in our first team. He'll come out of it all a better player and THFC will come out of it with a better equipped player but we'll have these moments in the interim.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's these small margins that make the difference. Had we setup well in the first half, this game was for winning. That is on Ange, just like the 2nd half recovery.

2 more areas as well. The 2 penalties not given and Ange ignoring his bench yet again. He only made 2 subs.

We could have had Reggie raiding down the left and covering that entire side. We could have got Porro off that pitch. He was absolutely shattered and offering nothing. We could have thrown one or two of our kids in for the last 10 mins. We had nothing to lose. They would have brought energy to proceedings.

Any solution that involves playing Regulion is proabably not actually a solution mate

 

[Muttley]

Any solution that involves playing Regulion is proabably not actually a solution mate

I only have 11 fit players, but managed to name 20 every match this season. 9 Susan Boyles on the bench.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I only have 11 fit players, but managed to name 20 every match this season. 9 Susan Boyles on the bench.

I'm not sure we even have 11 fit men at present do we? I think we've got about 9 fit men and then 8 boys and Regulion to make the bench look full

 

[Muttley]

I'm not sure we even have 11 fit men at present do we? I think we've got about 9 fit men and then 8 boys and Regulion to make the bench look full

I'm sure if we profiled who was named as a first team player at the start of the season and what percentage of our benches haven't bene them it's probably not so bad.