fernadez
Jermaine Jenas
Or/and a formation that mitigates them not being in the team.
40% of the figure for the entire 2016-17 is mental
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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Some european team ***
- Thread starter NickTB
- Start date
Or/and a formation that mitigates them not being in the team.
40% of the figure for the entire 2016-17 is mental
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Good summary. Second image illustrates the problems with the diamond when not pressing. Front the easily bypassed, midfield three left covering the width of the pitch, so many gaps.
The 4-4-2, abandoned by most teams for many games for the reason stated, it's just so painful to constantly get outnumbered in central midfield.
It can work... loads of hard work, disciplined players that know their roles, well drilled team preferably with one midfield destroyer and at least one striker willing to drop deeper and do the dirty work.
Our situation against Bayern. Tiring players unable to work hard enough. Players having to play multiple positions (centrally and wide) because of the fluidity of the chosen system, one of them being relatively new to the club. No midfield destroyer. Tiring strikers.
This is our go to solution to gain solidity after spending a lot of effort in the opening half an hour pressing and tracking back? Against a very good Bayern side. Instead of the tried and tested 4-2-3-1 that easily morphs into a midfield five when put under pressure.
It's a plan that baffles me. I want to trust Pochettino, I desperately want him to succeed. I respect that he knows better than me by a massive distance. I just don't understand though.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
A picture paints a thousand words. Even on paper our fullbacks are exposed.
fernadez
Jermaine Jenas
A picture paints a thousand words. Even on paper our fullbacks are exposed.
There should be little arrows on 28 and 17 showing all the directions they were expected to run in simultaneously. Conversly the movement of #20 is spot on.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
There is actually no reason to be if the system is working properly....
A picture paints a thousand words. Even on paper our fullbacks are exposed.
The two centre halves take care of Bayern's number 9, Winks the number 10, our full backs their 29 and 22, Sissoko and N'Dombele their 32 and 24.
If Bayern's full backs push up (as they did) then our three deeper midfielders should then shift across to that side with Sissoko or N'Dombele covering the opposition's fullback on/near the ball with Dele filling in to pick up the full back on the other side - i.e. becoming more of a standard 4-4-2 in defence.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
Feeling bitter about this defeat but not at all surprised ! This is easily our most humiliating defeat in any competition at home and our biggest ever in Europe ! As soon as I saw Winks and out-of-form Alli starting with in-form Lamela dropped, I got demotivated and knew we would lose this match. But never thought we would get humiliated by FC Hollywood ! We did play well in the first half and could have scored 4 goals if Son (twice), Kane and Ndombele had been more clinical. In fact, this match could have finished 8-8 if both teams had scored from all their chances with Sissoko and Eriksen also wasting their chances in the second half. But in a typical Spurs way, we conceded the second goal just before the first half finished and never recovered after that. The fact we let a former Arsenal player score 4 goals in the second half makes it more annoying !
I think all the players played a part in this defeat. Our attack were not clinical, our midfield made too many mistakes while our defence were too casual. Credit to Son and Kane for our goals but they also wasted other chances. The biggest culprit was Son as he wasted 2 one-on-one chances in the first half. Kane too should have done better with his one-on-one chance as well. Really annoyed Lamela didn't start this match. As proven many times, Lamela is a big-game player who could have helped us stop Bayern. Not sure why the out-of-form Alli started as he had another poor match. I think Eriksen should have started this match despite in poor form. I think Eriksen could have lifted his game just to show his worth to potential buyers. But Eriksen too wasted a good chance to score in the second half. Moura didn't have much time to make an impact after coming on.
We lost this match in midfield. This match shows we badly need a top quality defensive midfielder. I think we could have stopped them scoring atleast 3 or 4 goals if we had a reliable defensive midfielder. Winks made too many mistakes and was at fault for 2 or 3 of the goals. Ndombele started the match well and should have scored in the first half but went missing after that. Sissoko had a golden chance to score in the second half but blasted it high.
Our defence should feel ashamed for conceding 7 goals in this match. Our defence looked nervy from the start and it got worse as the match progressed. Lloris, Alderweireld and Vertonghen should have reacted faster for all the goals. Never thought we could concede 7 goals with Alderweireld and Vertonghen in defence. Not sure why but Alderweireld looked casual the whole match. Aurier and Rose looked clumsy whole match as well.
Our biggest ever defeat in Europe was actually the 0-8 defeat away to FC Cologne in the Intertoto Cup in 1996 which we didn't want to play in. At least we threw away that match by fielding youngsters. There is no excuse whatsoever for the humiliation to Bayern this time. The history books won't let us forget this defeat ever ! The only way we can overcome this humiliation is by beating Bayern away and go on to win the CL this season ! The media will sure to put all the pressure on Pochettino after this. Pochettino better do something to improve our form instantly or there will be questions on his capabilities as manager after being at Spurs for 5 without winning any trophy !
I think all the players played a part in this defeat. Our attack were not clinical, our midfield made too many mistakes while our defence were too casual. Credit to Son and Kane for our goals but they also wasted other chances. The biggest culprit was Son as he wasted 2 one-on-one chances in the first half. Kane too should have done better with his one-on-one chance as well. Really annoyed Lamela didn't start this match. As proven many times, Lamela is a big-game player who could have helped us stop Bayern. Not sure why the out-of-form Alli started as he had another poor match. I think Eriksen should have started this match despite in poor form. I think Eriksen could have lifted his game just to show his worth to potential buyers. But Eriksen too wasted a good chance to score in the second half. Moura didn't have much time to make an impact after coming on.
We lost this match in midfield. This match shows we badly need a top quality defensive midfielder. I think we could have stopped them scoring atleast 3 or 4 goals if we had a reliable defensive midfielder. Winks made too many mistakes and was at fault for 2 or 3 of the goals. Ndombele started the match well and should have scored in the first half but went missing after that. Sissoko had a golden chance to score in the second half but blasted it high.
Our defence should feel ashamed for conceding 7 goals in this match. Our defence looked nervy from the start and it got worse as the match progressed. Lloris, Alderweireld and Vertonghen should have reacted faster for all the goals. Never thought we could concede 7 goals with Alderweireld and Vertonghen in defence. Not sure why but Alderweireld looked casual the whole match. Aurier and Rose looked clumsy whole match as well.
Our biggest ever defeat in Europe was actually the 0-8 defeat away to FC Cologne in the Intertoto Cup in 1996 which we didn't want to play in. At least we threw away that match by fielding youngsters. There is no excuse whatsoever for the humiliation to Bayern this time. The history books won't let us forget this defeat ever ! The only way we can overcome this humiliation is by beating Bayern away and go on to win the CL this season ! The media will sure to put all the pressure on Pochettino after this. Pochettino better do something to improve our form instantly or there will be questions on his capabilities as manager after being at Spurs for 5 without winning any trophy !
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parklane1
Tony Galvin
Without a doubt that is just what we need.
Spot on its as simple as that.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
The problem is that NDombele has never played a wide role and I don’t believe winks has so their natural inclination is to come central
It’s why when we’re not attacking we’ll you can throw a blanket over the midfield 3 as their all central and close offering no width
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
This is where, for me, our FBs were shown up. Aurier's positional sense and decision making were appalling. Rose was also getting caught out positionally. With a diamond it is imperative that the FBs are both fast and play with discipline; neither was in evidence for me , though Rose gets a pass simply because he tried. But he was constantly wandering out of his areas. Winks was overloaded, and with the coverage scrambling to get there, it became easy for Bayern to switch back inside. I love Winks, but right now, whether he persists with the diamond or goes 4-2-3-1, Dier needs to be in. He would've made a difference on Tuesday. What would've made the biggest difference is if Aurier hadn't gone rogue; I still shudder every time I think of his stupid challenge on Gnabry on the half-way line for the third...
Legohamster
Ian Walker
Brighton will be loving facing us, they have been playing better than the points tally suggests.
We need to show fight and the want to win which has been lacking at times this season.
We need to show fight and the want to win which has been lacking at times this season.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
If it's that simple why aren't there more teams and managers playing this formation?
Are there any other formations where teams ask for a similar shift in position to one of a central attacking midfielder moving to a wide midfielder with serious defensive responsibilities?
Don't you agree that a flat 4-4-2 is quite difficult to implement defensively against teams at a similar level of quality?
StephenH
David Ginola
Could not agree more!
My gripe was, why was nothing was done (unless I missed something) to shore it up ie doubling up on Gnabry?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Every system will look good if you can just go on a godlike xG run.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
StephenH
David Ginola
But there's the rub, Aurier could not do the basics and Poch did nothing to stop Gnabry.
Surely, you don't sit there and watch your team fail because a player couldn't cope.
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Two full backs we reportedly wanted to sell this summer. Both lacking form at the very best. Set up to give them little protection. This can't be a surprise to anyone.