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OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Rangers ** Thursday 12 December 2024.

tommysvr said:
It's not just the Rangers game though. Aside from an assist or two and a goal v Emirates Marketing Project he's been consistently rubbish. Others, like Johnson and Son who weren't great v Rangers have at least pulled their weight at other times.
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Son was well below what is expected I love the guy but he hasn't been great this season but Ange would never call him out in public.
He knew exactly what he was doing when calling out a loan player who he choose to keep. That's on Ange he didn't need to throw him under the bus
 
tommysvr said:
It's not just the Rangers game though. Aside from an assist or two and a goal v Emirates Marketing Project he's been consistently rubbish. Others, like Johnson and Son who weren't great v Rangers have at least pulled their weight at other times.
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Werner too has pulled his weight in other matches. For sure he hasn't been great, but he hasn't been this bad in a long time.
 
afsoc4life said:
Re: Jordinho's post on Brennan

I can't argue with this. I watched it and it looked like he was just going through the motions. Ange's formation requires some form of creativity from the wingers.
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The Werner - Son - Johnson front three is so unbalanced. It's painful. Saw it last season, same this season.

That's part of the problem with our injuries. It's not just the number of players, it's the profiles missing leaving us unbalanced in several areas.

I get that people may disagree with this based on reputation and goals, but I think we'd be better off had we been missing Johnson or Son than missing Odobert (and Moore). Particularly with Richarlison also missing meaning that without Solanke we don't have a focal point and physical presence.

Same at the back. I know I know, VdV is superman, cheat mode etc. But missing Romero is imo massive for us, particularly when also missing Vicario and Bentancur. Not that Bentancur is great, but he offers a somewhat different profile to Bissouma. Not that he showed it yesterday, but still.
 
braineclipse said:
The Werner - Son - Johnson front three is so unbalanced. It's painful. Saw it last season, same this season.

That's part of the problem with our injuries. It's not just the number of players, it's the profiles missing leaving us unbalanced in several areas.

I get that people may disagree with this based on reputation and goals, but I think we'd be better off had we been missing Johnson or Son than missing Odobert (and Moore). Particularly with Richarlison also missing meaning that without Solanke we don't have a focal point and physical presence.

Same at the back. I know I know, VdV is superman, cheat mode etc. But missing Romero is imo massive for us, particularly when also missing Vicario and Bentancur. Not that Bentancur is great, but he offers a somewhat different profile to Bissouma. Not that he showed it yesterday, but still.
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We're Spurs we are entitled to win with both tea ladies, kit man and the mascots playing, don't make these unacceptable excuses. The only way to satisfy us is to sack Postercoglu on Christmas Eve and get some foreign bloke I've never heard of until we can sack him.
 
Kompakted said:
Who though? Realistically you're finding someone that is willing to rotate with Odobert and Moore to be understudy for Son and Johnson with the knowledge that Deki will also play out right sometimes and Richarlison may also play out left....its going to be someone like Werner or a kid....and we have the South Korean lad coming in soon too.....
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Fair do. But that's what our scouts are for. Refuse to believe we couldn't find an alternative. Seemed like we just went for the easy option which was to extend him
 
SpurMeUp said:
I posted the same in the match thread. We need Werner to stand up and be counted.

Nothing he did had conviction. Closing down, his passing, his focus, his finishing were woeful. Idk how you build up his confidence, but its shot.
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He isn't 18. He has to work on it himself as well as us giving him support. I'm not sure if something personal is going on or is incapable but either way we can't carry him when we were doing ok. We Def can't carry him when we can't string a win together
 
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SpurMeUp said:
I think its just do or die now for Werner. He was fresher than most, and we needed him to have to good game. Instead he was off the pace, unfocused and we carried him. None of his pressing worked either - too late, and lacking commitment. When we could break, he didn't collect the ball and went thru him for a throw in. When free on the edge of the box for a shot, of course he shoots over. Last chance saloon for him. If he doesn't step up, send him back in Jan and play Moore or sign another.
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If he is here til end of season, I'll cry. If he is here when Ange goes I will laugh
 
tommysvr said:
Sounds like "you've got 2 weeks to prove yourself or we'll cut your loan short" to me. An ultimatum. Good. He's right. Werner was dogbrick and we can't afford to carry someone like him at that level.
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It's funny how Ange is now calling him out now when he under pressure . It's not like Timo is now having a dip.
And now did he want him to stay, or was it the board??! Cos Rom has even backed him
 
SpurMeUp said:
He’s more effective as a sub. And can perform better than last night. But his head goes down the instant something doesn’t come off. Instead of fighting harder he goes into his shell.

As you say 28, he probably won’t develop now. Maybe hypnosis could sort him out 😂
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Serious qs. Do we have a sports psychologist? Cos we either need one or get a new one
 
braineclipse said:
The Werner - Son - Johnson front three is so unbalanced. It's painful. Saw it last season, same this season.

That's part of the problem with our injuries. It's not just the number of players, it's the profiles missing leaving us unbalanced in several areas.

I get that people may disagree with this based on reputation and goals, but I think we'd be better off had we been missing Johnson or Son than missing Odobert (and Moore). Particularly with Richarlison also missing meaning that without Solanke we don't have a focal point and physical presence.

Same at the back. I know I know, VdV is superman, cheat mode etc. But missing Romero is imo massive for us, particularly when also missing Vicario and Bentancur. Not that Bentancur is great, but he offers a somewhat different profile to Bissouma. Not that he showed it yesterday, but still.
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There were other options than going with Werner-Son-Johnson, it's just that Ange refuses to use them or to give them adequate game time to prove if they can play in the system.
 
DubSpur said:
There were other options than going with Werner-Son-Johnson, it's just that Ange refuses to use them or to give them adequate game time to prove if they can play in the system.
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If you're thinking of Lankshear I pretty much agree. I'm not sure I would expect him to be a difference maker, but he would have to be pretty bad to have less of an influence than Son did up front in the first half yesterday.

And that would also have given us the option to rest Son instead of running him further into the ground. At least give Son the chance to show that with some energy and fresher legs he can still be good.

Kulusevski too would have been an option, but another one that really needs a bit of a breather once in a while.

Typically I'm more interested in trying to understand why a manager does what he does than trying to point out "mistakes". Knowing that they both know ball more than me and have more information available to them.

Starting that front three for this game, a couple of games now where tired Son has started as a striker ahead of Lankshear in a Werner - Son - Johnson front three is one decision I really struggle to see the rationale for.
 
Legohamster said:
There are quite obviously ways of answering the question without throwing the player under the bus.
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Well yeah, Ange knows this as he literally protects the players every week. Why Werner? Because he's the one on loan, and quite clearly doesn't have long to make an impact or he will be sent home early.

Calling out Son would have a bigger impact because he's the captain and a very popular guy of the squad. It's very easy for us armchair fans to be saying he should be calling out player x,y and z - funnily enough the thing most on here were crying about when Conte did it...
 
tommysvr said:
Sounds like "you've got 2 weeks to prove yourself or we'll cut your loan short" to me. An ultimatum. Good. He's right. Werner was dogbrick and we can't afford to carry someone like him at that level.
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He wasn’t the worst last night.
kb 1984 said:
He wasn't the only dogbrick player against Rangers but Ange choose to out one player it was the wrong thing to do
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Having advised Romero 24 hours before not to air his thinking in public, and having said - yes, he actually said it! - that he would never have criticise a player to the press.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
We're Spurs we are entitled to win with both tea ladies, kit man and the mascots playing, don't make these unacceptable excuses. The only way to satisfy us is to sack Postercoglu on Christmas Eve and get some foreign bloke I've never heard of until we can sack him.
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Problem is, we are struggling to win with our first eleven out under this bloke. Rangers rested players last night for their cup final against Celtic on Sunday. So we toiled mightily against a weakened Scottish league team.
Mrs Vert said:
Serious qs. Do we have a sports psychologist? Cos we either need one or get a new one
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For the manager?
 
Mrs Vert said:
It's funny how Ange is now calling him out now when he under pressure . It's not like Timo is now having a dip.
And now did he want him to stay, or was it the board??! Cos Rom has even backed him
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I don't think its anything too deep. Werner lost the ball 16 times in the first half!! Ange subbed him, Got asked about it afterwards and explained why, He's a senior player not some kid and should've done much better.

I'm sure if Ange was asked about each players 1st half performance he'd slag off almost all of them, but he just happened to be asked about the one that he has decided to take off
 
dingdongo said:
I don't think its anything too deep. Werner lost the ball 16 times in the first half!! Ange subbed him, Got asked about it afterwards and explained why, He's a senior player not some kid and should've done much better.

I'm sure if Ange was asked about each players 1st half performance he'd slag off almost all of them, but he just happened to be asked about the one that he has decided to take off
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Already said this, was asked directly about taking Werner off at half time, he hardly went out of his way to 'throw him under the bus'.

Not a big deal and I doubt Werner is giving it the thought some people on here are, but we are now at the traditional point of the fans managerial cycle where posters will whinge about practically anything Ange does so it's going to take a lot for him to turn this around now.....
 
harr1984 said:
Already said this, was asked directly about taking Werner off at half time, he hardly went out of his way to 'throw him under the bus'.

Not a big deal and I doubt Werner is giving it the thought some people on here are, but we are now at the traditional point of the fans managerial cycle where posters will whinge about practically anything Ange does so it's going to take a lot for him to turn this around now.....
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I do think some people are making it bigger than it is. Perhaps including me, not sure.

It may not be a big deal, but it's certainly a deal. Players do not like being called out on their performances in public by the manager at all.
 
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