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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool Sunday 31st August 1330 KO***

DubaiSpur said:
You think we'll give Poch that backing, though? I hope we do, it'll make his job much easier, but somehow I can't bring myself to believe that we'll give him the top-class players he needs.
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I can't say for sure, but he must be fairly confident when signing his contract with us. As I said, we pretty much sign similar standard players over and over again, so maybe we need to give the signings the time we also want to afford Poch. Look how long it's taken Ramsey at the goons to deliver.
 
it's not just the money, the manager has to feel like he has the trust of the board, you can't put a price on that
 
so... we are level on points with liverpool and city and above Arsenal, Man Utd and Everton.

CRISIS
 
So used to our failures i would be over it by now if not for my mate being a red scouse.I got used to recording the games and only watching the ones when the forums say it was a good game,i obviously don't watch many.I'm getting up there in age and if i live ten to fifteen years more i can't see us winning anything,we just don't have what it takes as a club,i think that the fans are a brotherhood and we will never change teams but i'm not satisfied with our players or our club don't know how many feel the same.
 
DubaiSpur said:
But if Schneiderlin doesn't sign, then we know that Levy refused to pay for at least one player Poch really wanted. Ditto for that Musacchio lad, all though I've resisted bringing that up because in my mind there's little fault to be apportioned to Levy in that deal, what with all the third-party complications. There are murmurs about Moreno from Sevilla as well, and the fact that Levy hasn't gone for Poch's primary targets will be solidified should none of them appear by the end of tomorrow. I hope Fazio, Davies, Vorm and the rest do exceptionally well, but the fact that Schneiderlin was a primary target for Poch seems pretty evident from everything that's been written about that potential transfer by a huge range of outlets over the past few months. So where on Earth do people bring this assumption from that somehow Levy has done completely right by Poch this window? He's an exceptional chairman, but everything that's emerged into the public domain over the past few years about the way Levy's treated our managers is pretty conclusive evidence that the same thing is happening again given the complications.

I sincerely hope Poch can make these players work together and forge a cohesive unit, and I'm not judging him for anything that might happen this season: it is imperative that he starts next season at the helm of this club. But again, do not convince yourself that this has been a window where we've bought into the manager's vision and given him the players he wants.

And, as a closing statement, Allen isn't a top class player to you: he clearly is in Rodgers' mind. And I doubt he'd have been cleared to say he would have paid more for Allen than he eventually did if the board hadn't been comfortable with doing so, given the implications for future deals.
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And Liverpool weren't willing to shell out the extra for Dempsey, a player Rodgers clearly wanted. Just as an example I know and remember because he signed for us instead. Were they willing to shell out for Willian? Nope. Were they willing to shell out for Mkhitaryan? Again, nope. Rodgers has had to deal with missing out on plenty of players. Remember the whole "get your own scouts" stuff from the Liverpool fans? Was that because Liverpool went out and aggressively secured all of the top targets Rodgers had? No way...

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if a manager depends on a specific (or several specific) player(s) that are high profile that must be signed for him to make his system work at a club then the problem is not with the board/club. A manager has to be able to move on from missing out on a target. Seemingly that's what's happened with Fazio for example.

I do rate Allen, but when we're talking about what has made Liverpool a CL club again I really don't think he's anywhere near the top of the list. Sturridge and Coutinho were a lot more important. What Rodgers did with Henderson was a lot more important. What he's done with Sterling is a lot more important. These things often take a bit of time though... I don't think his comments were "board certified" at all. Just a typical "I really like my new player" statement from a manager that's had no impact on their other transfer dealings from what I can see.
 
Mumorn said:
so... we are level on points with liverpool and city and above Arsenal, Man Utd and Everton.

CRISIS
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point of view eh, you could equally say we struggled against relegation candidates on the opening day and then got murdered by a CL place rival at home
 
DubaiSpur said:
But if Schneiderlin doesn't sign, then we know that Levy refused to pay for at least one player Poch really wanted. Ditto for that Musacchio lad, all though I've resisted bringing that up because in my mind there's little fault to be apportioned to Levy in that deal, what with all the third-party complications. There are murmurs about Moreno from Sevilla as well, and the fact that Levy hasn't gone for Poch's primary targets will be solidified should none of them appear by the end of tomorrow. I hope Fazio, Davies, Vorm and the rest do exceptionally well, but the fact that Schneiderlin was a primary target for Poch seems pretty evident from everything that's been written about that potential transfer by a huge range of outlets over the past few months. So where on Earth do people bring this assumption from that somehow Levy has done completely right by Poch this window? He's an exceptional chairman, but everything that's emerged into the public domain over the past few years about the way Levy's treated our managers is pretty conclusive evidence that the same thing is happening again given the complications.

I sincerely hope Poch can make these players work together and forge a cohesive unit, and I'm not judging him for anything that might happen this season: it is imperative that he starts next season at the helm of this club. But again, do not convince yourself that this has been a window where we've bought into the manager's vision and given him the players he wants.

And, as a closing statement, Allen isn't a top class player to you: he clearly is in Rodgers' mind. And I doubt he'd have been cleared to say he would have paid more for Allen than he eventually did if the board hadn't been comfortable with doing so, given the implications for future deals.
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Schneiderlin is to POCH what Moutinho was to AVB. The resemblances are mounting.
 
Very excited to see who we bring in and how Poch decides he wants to move forward with us. Exciting times despite this defeat. Really good to benchmark where we are right now. Don't get too down about this defeat.
 
Mr_B said:
of course not but after that 3rd goal went in, we had 30 mins to at least get a consolation, show some effort and we did neither.
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Our first real setback under Poch. No doubt there will be more.

After going 3-0 down at home to a good team several of our players let their heads drop, I agree. This happens, we're not the first or the last big club to see that happen. Remember United getting crushed by City under Ferguson? Or Arsenal getting crushed by United?

Setbacks will happen. It's about how we respond and what can be learned from it. Poch seemed pretty clear on that in his interview after the match.
 
SteveAWOL said:
@guardian_sport: Liverpool’s ‘third man running’ tears holes in Tottenham’s system, by @Zonal_Marking http://gu.com/p/4x6tq/tw

[tweet]506111901827629056[/tweet]
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The thing is we knew that Henderson and Allen would run beyond the midfield. Henderson did that last year, yet we let both run untracked into the box.
Capoue tried but his alignment was as if he was the only DM and Bentaleb, just watched or jogged, watch the first goal, as Henderson is driving into the box. He is just ambling.
Surely, POCH made plans for this and instructed the DMs?
 
Looked to me today that our players were almost scared of Liverpool. Showed them far too much respect. Was like watching a different team to last week (albeit much much better opposition) but the movement and speed off pass wasn't there today.

I wonder if the heavy defeats to Liverpool last season played on our players minds today?
 
milo said:
All managers miss out on players. The good ones come up with other solutions.
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So we are quite happy to start our manager at a disadvantage and yet expect the world from him. Considering that AVB almost never got the exact players he wanted for a variety of reasons, I doubt Poch will be enthused watching a gettable target like Schneiderlin slipping away while Levy pushes Stambouli into his face as the low-cost, low-risk alternative instead.

Ah, screw it. In 18 months, will we shout the same things at Poch that we shouted at AVB when Poch has some bad games? And then what, do the exact same 'don't like your targets, here's some cheap alternatives' schtick and shout 'inflexible, incompetent' at the next poor fool as he walks away as well?
 
In my opinion this game came too early for us. Rogers plays a very similar style to Poch and they're very good at it. Problem is with a high press as a unit is you can't carry stragglers. Only takes one or two to be slack or not up to speed with the press to leave massive gaps. And once you concede early you're on the back foot. Liverpool lost 3-0 to West Brom early in Rogers reign getting picked off when the gaps in his system appeared. That was early days for him and it's early days for us too, no need to panic
 
milo said:
All managers miss out on players. The good ones come up with other solutions.
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These days the good (well more successful at least) managers get the players they want as they manage clubs with infinite resources.

Not sure which comes first.
 
galeforce said:
These days the good (well more successful at least) managers get the players they want as they manage clubs with infinite resources.

Not sure which comes first.
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The good managers also change their system based on the opposition and how the game pans out. This modern trend of having a way you play and no plan B is never going to work. Even Guardiola got found out at Barcelona and subsequently Bayern. The way to deal with Liverpool was to sit deeper and negate their pace and put 2 upfront because they are weak at the back. Passing it around in our own half until someone makes a mistake is always going to fail against better teams.
 
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