SpurMeUp
Gary Stevens
In rugby all the contenious decisions and thought processes are broadcast. But no one understands it anyway as the rules are complex! In rugby they can also take more time and upgrade yellows to red effectively.
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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Everton FC ***
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
In rugby all the contenious decisions and thought processes are broadcast. But no one understands it anyway as the rules are complex! In rugby they can also take more time and upgrade yellows to red effectively.
SpurMeUp
Gary Stevens
It still doesn't deal with the debateable decision. Any foul is effectively on a scale. From banged to rights clear foul down to 51% foul 49% not a foul. It is that area where it could be given or couldn't that is the hardest thing to adjudicate. And what tends to happen is those close calls go with the home side. They are never overruled by var as they bordeline.
Is referring an art of a science? You find many refs give the edge decisions to the losing side (especially if at home), almost unconsciously making the game more interesting.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I thought it was VdV but whoever it was, I remember the VAR check and just laughing. 'Not a clear and obvious error' I suppose.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
It's a great question.
Yesterday, I think Ange simply got it wrong, removing all the starting midfielders in a game like that was a rish, replacing them with who he did not ideal, and I personally would not have brought Dragusin on then. Having said that, if Deki would just learn not to do stupid things sometimes, that'd be helpful. Instead of not passing quickly, or trying to turn and carry the ball, why not just hold the ball and draw the foul at that moment? And IF you do give it away, don't petulantly foul the bloke and hand them the perfect angle for a potential equaliser....so regardless of options off the bench, we did it to ourselves too!
tommysvr
Vedran Corluka
I don't particularly like the move of bringing on Dragusin because I think it sends a message to Spurs and the opposition that we're going to sit back and try to see the game out. I think the mental impact is larger than the individual personnel. I think it also goes against what Ange has been saying; we never step back, we always try to look to score more. It seems like he's compromising a bit, trying to find a way to get the win. He's still very much learning too, so I'll forgive that.
But, like you say, it almost worked. But for giving a dumb foul away it did work. If Deki just gets rid of the ball then the narrative is "it was a struggle but the subs did what they needed to do." So it's a very fine line. Hopefully we iron these sorts of things out over the remainder of the season and then (with some more reinforcements to suit the style) we go really hard at next season.
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
And the result of obstruction, if given, is an indirect free kick. Other indirect free kick offences dangerous play (high boot etc) and offside.
It's a bit off topic, but when was the last time you saw a ref indicate an indirect free kick for anything other than offside?
I haven't seen it for years! It's really bizarre. They give direct for everything now.
Thought kulu and sarr were the right choices. After that though?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Hojbjerg gave the ball away really sloppily at least once towards the end before getting subbed. He looked tired. You can ask another 6 minutes of him, but if he then keeps looking tired and sloppy and we concede because of that the question becomes why didn't Ange sub him...
The experience of Davies would be good, but Dragusin is much better at defending in the air, much more physical. Again, in hindsight, experience of Davies. But put him on and concede from a set piece the question would be asked why not Dragusin who is a bit of a beast in the air.
Imo the problem was that we were missing key players with others coming back from injuries recently. That "should" be Hojberg coming on from the bench to help us see the game out, as he has repeatedly. But we didn't have that level of player on the bench.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I think that kind of stat sometimes gets too much attention. Still a relatively small sample size. Not saying you're doing that, just a point of clarification that this may also be mostly coincidence.
I agree with you that we've been short of options on the bench particularly when we've had quite a few starters missing (or just returning from injuries).
I also think we may be struggling a little bit with what our identity is supposed to be in these situations. Are we supposed to just play our normal way to the very end, or also knock the ball around, or also just hoof it at times, or also try to go for the corner flag etc.
I think a lot of the focus from Ange has been on instilling our way of playing and we've gotten quite far with that. Innstilling how to adjust from that to specific game conditions will usually take a bit longer.
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
Attacker more than 'moves towards him' and 'tickles' him. He moves into him and physically obstructs him, preventing him from getting a clean jump.
Vicario still gets a hand to the ball but the nudging means he is off balance and can't launch properly so it a weak hand.
Standing your ground is one thing but deliberately backing into a player is a foul. Doesn't matter how strong or weak Vicario is there, the Everton player deliberately interferes with him, off the ball, in an illegal way.
Shoulder to shoulder though.
We need to get a defender or attacker to help him clear space. At one point he had 3 everton players around him. Our players were on the 6 yard line.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
May have been
It was a clear foul though
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
And the way we’re set up works
Blocking vics space to come for it with more bodies creates other issues. He has to do better. He needs to jump to for a start
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
One thing I’ve just realised is we have conceded the last goal now in our last 4 league games I think
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
It wasn't though, was it?
It was backing in using hips and buttocks.
If we had a defender doing what he was doing to him or Calvert-Lewis and they went down when within playing distance of the ball there would be arms up for a penalty.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
If agree with you if vic jumps
He doesnt
He stands and uses his height. It’s a weak way of dealing with a simple problem
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
You can't jump if someone is nudging you.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
You can try
Then you get a foul
It’s that simpje
If you stand still and flap a push at the ball ( weak technique) then the ref is not going to see anything wrong.
If you actually attempt to jump and move … you will fall
That’s a foul
Our players waled away from that goal looking embarrassed for Vic
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
While goalkeepers do have the advantage of using their hands that also puts them in a disadvantage in a physical duel. Imagine doing a shoulder to shoulder, then imagine a shoulder to shoulder where you have to keep your arms over your head... It's not really a shoulder even. Your much more vulnerable parts get exposed.
Not saying he can't do more, I think he can. But it's also important to remember why this is more difficult for keepers and imo this is why keepers historically have been more protected by refs.
It's also not just keepers that struggle in aerial duels when having to compete in a duel. Just like competing in a duel for a header usually impacts the accuracy and strength of the header a duel for a keeper will make it much more difficult to get a good fist to the ball.
Not saying he can't do more, I think he can. But it's also important to remember why this is more difficult for keepers and imo this is why keepers historically have been more protected by refs.
It's also not just keepers that struggle in aerial duels when having to compete in a duel. Just like competing in a duel for a header usually impacts the accuracy and strength of the header a duel for a keeper will make it much more difficult to get a good fist to the ball.