*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Everton FC ***

[Bedfordspurs]

While goalkeepers do have the advantage of using their hands that also puts them in a disadvantage in a physical duel. Imagine doing a shoulder to shoulder, then imagine a shoulder to shoulder where you have to keep your arms over your head... It's not really a shoulder even. Your much more vulnerable parts get exposed.

Not saying he can't do more, I think he can. But it's also important to remember why this is more difficult for keepers and imo this is why keepers historically have been more protected by refs.

It's also not just keepers that struggle in aerial duels when having to compete in a duel. Just like competing in a duel for a header usually impacts the accuracy and strength of the header a duel for a keeper will make it much more difficult to get a good fist to the ball.

The key is compete
For me the keepers advantages allow him to compete more for the ball
You don’t compete in elite sporting without using all the tools you can
Standing still and flapping is not good
Jumping… attempting to jump… and then falling. That could work

I’ve not seen one neutral say that it was a foul. Only Spurs fans and some Everton ones who are the victims

 

[metalgear]

He was clearly offside and he knew it

Werners chance has been mentioned a few times, but IIRC (if its the chance where he ran free from just inside their half) he was a yard offside so would have been ruled out.

 

[metalgear]

Tim.Howard commenting on this said that in some situations he'd palm the ball with one hand and used the other for "leverage" lol.

While goalkeepers do have the advantage of using their hands that also puts them in a disadvantage in a physical duel. Imagine doing a shoulder to shoulder, then imagine a shoulder to shoulder where you have to keep your arms over your head... It's not really a shoulder even. Your much more vulnerable parts get exposed.

Not saying he can't do more, I think he can. But it's also important to remember why this is more difficult for keepers and imo this is why keepers historically have been more protected by refs.

It's also not just keepers that struggle in aerial duels when having to compete in a duel. Just like competing in a duel for a header usually impacts the accuracy and strength of the header a duel for a keeper will make it much more difficult to get a good fist to the ball.

 

[braineclipse]

The key is compete
For me the keepers advantages allow him to compete more for the ball
You don’t compete in elite sporting without using all the tools you can
Standing still and flapping is not good
Jumping… attempting to jump… and then falling. That could work

I’ve not seen one neutral say that it was a foul. Only Spurs fans and some Everton ones who are the victims

I don't agree that he's been "standing still and flapping". But he probably can be more aggressive/assertive.

When was the last time a penalty was awarded for a foul by the goalkeeper trying to get ahead to get to a corner? Can't remember any off the top of my head. So probably he can be quite a lot more aggressive and get away with it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't agree that he's been "standing still and flapping". But he probably can be more aggressive/assertive.

When was the last time a penalty was awarded for a foul by the goalkeeper trying to get ahead to get to a corner? Can't remember any off the top of my head. So probably he can be quite a lot more aggressive and get away with it.

Exactly
He needs to be more aggressive and use The advantages he has

Watch the gaol again and the city one and he doesn’t use his feet at all. What he should do is move backwards and take than with him then move again.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't agree that he's been "standing still and flapping". But he probably can be more aggressive/assertive.

When was the last time a penalty was awarded for a foul by the goalkeeper trying to get ahead to get to a corner? Can't remember any off the top of my head. So probably he can be quite a lot more aggressive and get away with it.

Can’t remember either, but I bet it was one of ours.

 

[alekaras]

To pretend we’re equipped to content for the title is fanciful. Yet, if we had everyone back and firing we can hang with the best.

It may feel fanciful, but is it really?

Chelsea (H): If we hadn't lost our heads, we would have at a minimum 1 point from that match
Villa (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Spam (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Wolves (A): We weren't the better side, but no reason we couldn't have gotten a point
Everton (A): Fine margins could have seen us grab the win and +2 points

Add all of the above and that's an extra 6 points, which would have us at -2 from the top.

The thing this year is that, as opposed to previous years, the games where we dropped points were all ones where we were the better side (in some cases by a wide margin), or at a minimum performed well enough for a draw. And in most of those cases we were the better side, even though we were fielding a depleted squad. If that is not title contending form, then I don't know what is. But you also need to get the rub of the green and refereeing decisions that go your way, and that's where we are falling short.

In short, I think we are unlucky to not be in the title race. If we had just half the luck with injuries and decisions that Leicester had in 15/16 or Chelsea in 16/17, we'd be well ahead of everyone and it would have been well deserved.

 

[braineclipse]

It may feel fanciful, but is it really?

Chelsea (H): If we hadn't lost our heads, we would have at a minimum 1 point from that match
Villa (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Spam (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Wolves (A): We weren't the better side, but no reason we couldn't have gotten a point
Everton (A): Fine margins could have seen us grab the win and +2 points

Add all of the above and that's an extra 6 points, which would have us at -2 from the top.

The thing this year is that, as opposed to previous years, the games where we dropped points were all ones where we were the better side (in some cases by a wide margin), or at a minimum performed well enough for a draw. And in most of those cases we were the better side, even though we were fielding a depleted squad. If that is not title contending form, then I don't know what is. But you also need to get the rub of the green and refereeing decisions that go your way, and that's where we are falling short.

In short, I think we are unlucky to not be in the title race. If we had just half the luck with injuries and decisions that Leicester had in 15/16 or Chelsea in 16/17, we'd be well ahead of everyone and it would have been well deserved.

Even 4-5 points more and I doubt anyone would be writing us off in the title race.

We have had games that have gone our way and definitely could have ended differently too. Our form is yet to really recover post Chelsea because of injuries and players missing. But things could have been different for sure.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It may feel fanciful, but is it really?

Chelsea (H): If we hadn't lost our heads, we would have at a minimum 1 point from that match
Villa (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Spam (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Wolves (A): We weren't the better side, but no reason we couldn't have gotten a point
Everton (A): Fine margins could have seen us grab the win and +2 points

Add all of the above and that's an extra 6 points, which would have us at -2 from the top.

The thing this year is that, as opposed to previous years, the games where we dropped points were all ones where we were the better side (in some cases by a wide margin), or at a minimum performed well enough for a draw. And in most of those cases we were the better side, even though we were fielding a depleted squad. If that is not title contending form, then I don't know what is. But you also need to get the rub of the green and refereeing decisions that go your way, and that's where we are falling short.

In short, I think we are unlucky to not be in the title race. If we had just half the luck with injuries and decisions that Leicester had in 15/16 or Chelsea in 16/17, we'd be well ahead of everyone and it would have been well deserved.

That’s the frustration. We are 80-90% there, ahead of expectations. Yet I think there are systemic issues. Conceding late goals. Not being cut throat in attack. Not being able to dominate possession via midfield etc

Where we are, compared to where Emirates Marketing Project, the Goons and Pool are - years into a vision - yes I think it is us being a bit too partisan thinking we’re in the mix. I get your point totally, we’ve flirted with the top level both in terms of results and performances. But there’s more to come and more to do. Hence why we drop points from winning positions.

 

[Baleforce]

It may feel fanciful, but is it really?

Chelsea (H): If we hadn't lost our heads, we would have at a minimum 1 point from that match
Villa (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Spam (H): We were clearly the better side, but ended up losing. Just managing a draw would have given us +1 points
Wolves (A): We weren't the better side, but no reason we couldn't have gotten a point
Everton (A): Fine margins could have seen us grab the win and +2 points

Add all of the above and that's an extra 6 points, which would have us at -2 from the top.

The thing this year is that, as opposed to previous years, the games where we dropped points were all ones where we were the better side (in some cases by a wide margin), or at a minimum performed well enough for a draw. And in most of those cases we were the better side, even though we were fielding a depleted squad. If that is not title contending form, then I don't know what is. But you also need to get the rub of the green and refereeing decisions that go your way, and that's where we are falling short.

In short, I think we are unlucky to not be in the title race. If we had just half the luck with injuries and decisions that Leicester had in 15/16 or Chelsea in 16/17, we'd be well ahead of everyone and it would have been well deserved.

I think the Chelsea game was more destructive than that, don’t lose our heads and we don’t get the suspensions, or the injuries.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think the Chelsea game was more destructive than that, don’t lose our heads and we don’t get the suspensions, or the injuries.

Yep

 

[alekaras]

I think the Chelsea game was more destructive than that, don’t lose our heads and we don’t get the suspensions, or the injuries.

Agreed. What I was trying to point out was that, in spite of the Chelsea game, we still have a team that could have been challenging for the title, were it not for fine margins that didn't go our way. If we had kept our cool in that game, the table would have looked a whole lot different right now.

 

[Bishop]

There are rules which say you cannot directly obstruct a goalkeeper via physical interference. There are rules which say you cannot throw people to the floor in the penalty box. And there are veery clear rules with regards to yellow card offenses i.e. diving to try and win a decision. How about to those ends. As for me not liking the way those rule-bendings are continually deployed by his sides, are you suggesting I should just shut up and accept it? No thanks.

I thought you were talking about their long balls and defensive tactics so I got the wrong end of the stick if you were talking and fouls and dives.

 

[Kandi1977]

While goalkeepers do have the advantage of using their hands that also puts them in a disadvantage in a physical duel. Imagine doing a shoulder to shoulder, then imagine a shoulder to shoulder where you have to keep your arms over your head... It's not really a shoulder even. Your much more vulnerable parts get exposed.

That is the thing. You can't go shoulder to shoulder with a GK raising his arms to catch the ball. That's why they usually get the foul.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That is the thing. You can't go shoulder to shoulder with a GK raising his arms to catch the ball. That's why they usually get the foul.

Hence why if your full stretch you get the ball or the foul
Both Everton and city gaols came from crosses that weren’t that high

 

[Sandman]

I don't agree that he's been "standing still and flapping". But he probably can be more aggressive/assertive.

When was the last time a penalty was awarded for a foul by the goalkeeper trying to get ahead to get to a corner? Can't remember any off the top of my head. So probably he can be quite a lot more aggressive and get away with it.

Onana getting away with it early doors against wolves clearly shows you can be way more aggressive if you actively go for the ball.

City one - he was just too weak.
Everton - The saw the city game and roughed him up. Its on him now to learn from this. Either ange drops his zonal ( doubt it ) and man marks any player that is trying to disturb Vicario. Or Vic learns from it and its stronger, get up with his knees and use his other arm for leverage etc. Luke Big Erik use to do.

either way they need to work on it in training. Or it will keep happening. You do need the opposition to have good delivery and a willingness to play that way. But it will happen.

 

[TheQuest]

My ratings for our players.

Vicario....5
Porro......5.5
Romero..5
Vdv.........8
Udogie...6
Bentancur 4.5
Hojbjerg 6.5
Maddison 7.5
Johnson..4
Richi........8
Werner....4.5

Postecoglou 5

I have been harsh on Porro, Romero, Udogie,Johnson and Werner when compared to the media and web ratings it seems. Which were....

Porro.......6.35
Romero...6.25
Udogie.....7.35
Johnson...5.35
Werner......6

 

[seaside spur]

Just anecdotal from me watching games, but it feels like this season there’s been a real increase in late goals across the league. But breaking down the ones we’ve conceded:

• 1 v Everton costly
• 2 v Chelsea, taking it from 2-1 to 4-1 with 9 men
• 1 v Saudi Sportswashing Machine to make it 4-1
• 2 v Wolves, very costly
• 1 v Palace to make it 2-1 (was nearly 2-2 though)
• 1 v Burnley to make it 5-2

So we’ve dropped 5 points from them. On the other side, we’ve scored stoppage time goals:

• 2 v Sheffield United
• 1 v Liverpool
• 1 v Emirates Marketing Project

Earning us 6 points. Not sure there’s a whole lot to be taken out of that myself, other than we should have killed a couple of games off earlier than we did.

One thing that's not been taken into account , is that teams at the top ( which we are) normally score a lot more late goals than they concede.

 

[seaside spur]

Good analysis.

It felt like the late goals conceded had cost us way more than that, whereas we are actually +1 in late goals.

It is probably out there somewhere. all teams concede late goals. Would be good to see that stat for all teams and see who the ones in minus are. Naturally the worst ones will be those near the bottom, but would be interesting to see how the other Top 6/8 teams have fared in the late goals scenario

Thought kulu and sarr were the right choices. After that though?

Yep Kulu and Sarr weren't the problem, we got control of the game after they came on. We lost it again after the late subs and we were even more vulnerable to set pieces.

 

[thfcsteff]

I thought you were talking about their long balls and defensive tactics so I got the wrong end of the stick if you were talking and fouls and dives.

No worries mate, it happens. Stylistically, indeed whatever. But it is all the extra brick, yes...