OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Brighton - Sunday 6 October at 4.30 pm **

[Lemonade Money]

Unless we want to talk about how good the first half was?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Unless we want to talk about how good the first half was?

It looked amazing on TV
But analytically…. It wasn’t as good as it looked
Odd

 

[Bishop]

Bad half day at the office. Learn from it and move on.

That is the key part, do we learn and adapt to the pain or do we bullishly keep doing the same thing and just hope for a better result.

The key is to learn what triggered the result and if we signs of that again address as soon as possible.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That is the key part, do we learn and adapt to the pain or do we bullishly keep doing the same thing and just hope for a better result.

The key is to learn what triggered the result and if we signs of that again address as soon as possible.

Key is them understanding what triggered it
Doesn’t help we have plenty away for the countries

 

[Bishop]

Key is them understanding what triggered it
Doesn’t help we have plenty away for the countries

Finding out the trigger is a part but I think you will always have ebbs and flows in gamesz moments where it all goes for you and moments where it doesn't. Fixing the mentality of players in those situations I think is easier said than actually done.

So I think a stronger course of action if the preventative measures haven't worked is recognising the pattern and having a plan of action if do see it occuring.

 

[glasgowspur]

I find it a bit pathetic that some Spurs fans think Lamela stepping on Fabregas' hand was anything to be proud of?

We were playing Chelsea in a game that we had to win and still could've won at the point that Lamela risks us having to play with 10 men for the rest of the game. Both a gutless and pointless action IMO. If you want to inflict some pain on Fabregas then hit him with a proper hard tackle (Lamela not anywhere near tough enough to do that so goes for the snidey option)

There is still no evidence that it was deliberate or that he even did catch the hand and that fabregas wasn't play acting is there?
Regardless, it is the type of situation that we always happens to us and we rollover and bemoan it's not fair.
Well sometimes you have to stand up for yourself and as a club I don't think we do.
As long suffering spurs supporters we've all seen us get screwed over multiple times and we do "the right thing", can't say I'm proud of it but it is good to know someone cared enough to fight back.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think that was true. Everything I've read seems to suggest Lamela was popular and I'm sure when he was away with Argentina once he posted something along the lines of "I can't wait to get back to my team". I also don't think there was a frailty under the peak Poch years. We bullied teams. I miss Lamela. Watched a re-run of the 6-1 Old Trafford win in the run-up to the United game this season and Lamela went down like a sniper and got their player sent off. We really could do with his brickhousery in this team.

He was certainly very popular with some of the older players, cliff Jones for instance always spoke really highly of him, and the younger players as.
Not convinced he was a real part of the Poch core, maybe that was his fault of course.
I do think he had a real affection for club.

 

[parklane1]

I find it a bit pathetic that some Spurs fans think Lamela stepping on Fabregas' hand was anything to be proud of?

We were playing Chelsea in a game that we had to win and still could've won at the point that Lamela risks us having to play with 10 men for the rest of the game. Both a gutless and pointless action IMO. If you want to inflict some pain on Fabregas then hit him with a proper hard tackle (Lamela not anywhere near tough enough to do that so goes for the snidey option)

Could not agree more. I never understood why so many of our fans loved what we did to some of the Chelsea players. The truth is [imo] is that we lost our heads and because of that we lost what was a very important game, i said at the time we threw it away by playing like we did yet all i heard from a lot of our supporters was how great we kicked Chelski.

Chelski wanted a battle because they knew it would help them win the game, sadly we fell for it and blew our chances in a game we COULD have won.

 

[billyiddo]

We didn't lose out heads though, we were kicking lumps out of them from the first minute and took the lead while doing so

 

[parklane1]

We didn't lose out heads though, we were kicking lumps out of them from the first minute and took the lead while doing so

Really we spent most of the 2nd half trying to kick them and we lost focus on winning the game. All about opinions i guess.

 

[elltrev]

Sorry if this has already been discussed - haven’t really been on here since the result.

Just watching it back on MOTD, and seems like the first two goals both stem from us not tracking their LB. First one Porro’s caught in two minds and loses Mitoma, second one he goes to the left back and leaves Romero and VDV 1v1 against Mitoma and Welbeck.

Ive seen us do this loads - our wingers purposefully not tracking their full-backs. Is Ange just happy taking the defensive risk? Seems like a recipe for disaster. Can’t totally blame the defenders IMO, it’s asking a lot of them.

 

[Bishop]

Sorry if this has already been discussed - haven’t really been on here since the result.

Just watching it back on MOTD, and seems like the first two goals both stem from us not tracking their LB. First one Porro’s caught in two minds and loses Mitoma, second one he goes to the left back and leaves Romero and VDV 1v1 against Mitoma and Welbeck.

Ive seen us do this loads - our wingers purposefully not tracking their full-backs. Is Ange just happy taking the defensive risk? Seems like a recipe for disaster. Can’t totally blame the defenders IMO, it’s asking a lot of them.

Honestly it feels like we don't have a defensive setup once a team has beaten the press. We are effective when we keep the opposition away from our goal but if we think back to even last season every time the opposition gets near our penalty box it feels dangerous and so often it is.

I don't know if we have the wrong mindsets in there but it often feels like it's the back 4 fighting by themselves and I know that's not strictly speaking true but our wingers if it's not Kulu don't really get involved and then so often what we see as good defending is one of the back 4 making that last ditch challenge or block. We laud that moment but we don't really delve deeper into the flipside. If they were to make a mistake in that moment the attacker would then likely be through on goal and that's exactly what happened on Sunday.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Honestly it feels like we don't have a defensive setup once a team has beaten the press. We are effective when we keep the opposition away from our goal but if think back to even last season every time the opposition get near our penalty box it feels dangerous and so often is.

I don't know if we have the wrong mindsets in there but it often feels like it's the back 4 fighting by themselves and I know that's not strictly speaking true but out wingers if it's not Kulu don't really get involved and then so often what we see as good defending is one of the back 4 making that last ditch challenge or block. We laid that moment but don't really delve deeper into the flipside. If they were to make a mistake in that moment the attacker would then likely be through on goal and that's exactly what happened on Sunday.

Sadly, i think the level of defensive coaching basically left building when Conte did...

 

[braineclipse]

Sorry if this has already been discussed - haven’t really been on here since the result.

Just watching it back on MOTD, and seems like the first two goals both stem from us not tracking their LB. First one Porro’s caught in two minds and loses Mitoma, second one he goes to the left back and leaves Romero and VDV 1v1 against Mitoma and Welbeck.

Ive seen us do this loads - our wingers purposefully not tracking their full-backs. Is Ange just happy taking the defensive risk? Seems like a recipe for disaster. Can’t totally blame the defenders IMO, it’s asking a lot of them.

Yes, our wingers not tracking the full back happens quite a bit. But usually because they're doing something else, for example when we press high. That's different to what happened against Brighton imo.

Honestly it feels like we don't have a defensive setup once a team has beaten the press. We are effective when we keep the opposition away from our goal but if we think back to even last season every time the opposition gets near our penalty box it feels dangerous and so often it is.

I don't know if we have the wrong mindsets in there but it often feels like it's the back 4 fighting by themselves and I know that's not strictly speaking true but our wingers if it's not Kulu don't really get involved and then so often what we see as good defending is one of the back 4 making that last ditch challenge or block. We laud that moment but we don't really delve deeper into the flipside. If they were to make a mistake in that moment the attacker would then likely be through on goal and that's exactly what happened on Sunday.

When a high press is broken there's going to be problems. That's why it's worth the risk to try to play through a high press.

Whatever that was in the second half I'm not sure it can be called a press. I think it's possible to "press" as in be aggressive in a mid block. But this wasn't that either. More similar to a more passive mid block as we've seen teams play against us quite a bit this season, except we didn't block the passing lines either.

 

[elltrev]

Honestly it feels like we don't have a defensive setup once a team has beaten the press. We are effective when we keep the opposition away from our goal but if we think back to even last season every time the opposition gets near our penalty box it feels dangerous and so often it is.

I don't know if we have the wrong mindsets in there but it often feels like it's the back 4 fighting by themselves and I know that's not strictly speaking true but our wingers if it's not Kulu don't really get involved and then so often what we see as good defending is one of the back 4 making that last ditch challenge or block. We laud that moment but we don't really delve deeper into the flipside. If they were to make a mistake in that moment the attacker would then likely be through on goal and that's exactly what happened on Sunday.

And this wasn’t even after them beating the press! For the first goal, we had 10 men behind the ball. But Johnson left their full-back alone, and they just went CB > FB > Mitoma > goal

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, our wingers not tracking the full back happens quite a bit. But usually because they're doing something else, for example when we press high. That's different to what happened against Brighton imo.

When a high press is broken there's going to be problems. That's why it's worth the risk to try to play through a high press.

Whatever that was in the second half I'm not sure it can be called a press. I think it's possible to "press" as in be aggressive in a mid block. But this wasn't that either. More similar to a more passive mid block as we've seen teams play against us quite a bit this season, except we didn't block the passing lines either.

We didtnt press at all second half
The video I posted shows that in glaringly scary detail

 

[lurker of old]

The team who played against Brighton are fantastic in attack and that's clearly where their strength is. Ange moaned about the players accepting their fate, but he did exactly the same. Bringing on subs when we are behind is daft, he needs to be proactive.

 

[SteveAWOL]

He a football romantic....and that ain't changing.

Hopefully he proves to be more Pochettino than Bielsa.

 

[Mikey10]

He a football romantic....and that ain't changing.

Unfortunately I fear a lack of any pragmatism will eventually lead to the end of him with us.

I've said for a long time we have a habit of buying settlers, players good enough ability wise but get to Tottenham and get comfortable with the culture of not needing to win.

We aren’t willing to pay the money for really top players, so therefore that’s more often than not what we’ll get.

 

[Kompakted]

Hopefully he proves to be more Pochettino than Bielsa.

This. Pochettino played a high press/high line and the attackers often passed off full backs and stayed high but the difference was that the DM always dropped to split the CB when we were pushing high so we always had minimum of 3 back even if hit on the break.