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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v AFC Bournemouth ***

Bedfordspurs said:
A great example of why too many touches doesnt help was when Maddison lost it for their shot that hit the post
He took 7 touches and lost it (he had passes but didn’t take any)
They took 6 to hit the post and move the ball from their half
Look at the penalty and no play took more than two touches other than Kepa on son
Click to expand...

This was indeed the opposite end of the risk-reward spectrum. Our move to get the penalty was indeed great. However, too often the attempt to do one-touch passing is at the wrong place and time...like in our own box ffs...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
With poor technique
Really poor
These are not poor players and shouldn’t need coaching on how to pass a ball
Click to expand...

Sorry but this point is nonsense imv 'Passing' at this level is more than an individual being able to pass a ball - it's about shape, structure and a whole bunch of other things that the manager is primarily responsible for putting in place and coaching on the training field is a fundamental part of that.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
A great example of why too many touches doesnt help was when Maddison lost it for their shot that hit the post
He took 7 touches and lost it (he had passes but didn’t take any)
They took 6 to hit the post and move the ball from their half
Look at the penalty and no play took more than two touches other than Kepa on son
Click to expand...

This is Something that has been mentioned quite a bit on the last few pages, there's risky passes that could be made but we don't have the confidence to try it. So we take too many touches, get pressed lose the ball and are caught out of position.
Runs are being made but they are not the obvious ones or safe ones and rather than risk giving the ball away we recycle it.
Without weeding out the players who have lost confidence and replacing them I don't see a way out of it, and I don't think our squad is deep enough for that.
 
billyiddo said:
Sorry but this point is nonsense imv 'Passing' at this level is more than an individual being able to pass a ball - it's about shape, structure and a whole bunch of other things that the manager is primarily responsible for putting in place and coaching on the training field is a fundamental part of that.
Click to expand...
Porros pass for their goal was lazy
Johnson was on the right place and so was Porro
The shape was right, the execution poor
 
glasgowspur said:
This is Something that has been mentioned quite a bit on the last few pages, there's risky passes that could be made but we don't have the confidence to try it. So we take too many touches, get pressed lose the ball and are caught out of position.
Runs are being made but they are not the obvious ones or safe ones and rather than risk giving the ball away we recycle it.
Without weeding out the players who have lost confidence and replacing them I don't see a way out of it, and I don't think our squad is deep enough for that.
Click to expand...
That’s on Ange to fix
If you watch that play back Maddison had several passes he could make and instead … lost it
They made several quick passes and were unlucky
What they also did was move off the ball
Our players seem to wait for the ball
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Porros pass for their goal was lazy
Johnson was on the right place and so was Porro
The shape was right, the execution poor
Click to expand...

Porro's passing choice was indeed poor. But is that not an example of a player who has been flogged to death showing tiredness of mind? I'd imagine earlier in the season he'd have passed better.
The bigger issue for me was the poor shape that meant when we lost possession from Porro trying to lay a key attacking pass, we straight away were vulnerable...and often many times again and again
 
glasgowspur said:
This is Something that has been mentioned quite a bit on the last few pages, there's risky passes that could be made but we don't have the confidence to try it. So we take too many touches, get pressed lose the ball and are caught out of position.
Runs are being made but they are not the obvious ones or safe ones and rather than risk giving the ball away we recycle it.
Without weeding out the players who have lost confidence and replacing them I don't see a way out of it, and I don't think our squad is deep enough for that.
Click to expand...
There are quite a few times when watching where you can see a more progressive pass that can be made (heck, a player has even moved into a position to create that option) BUT we go sideways or backwards...just recycle again and again. Our movement could be even better, no doubt, but the less we take a trickier, smarter pass the belief it might happen wains. (From a players pov as well)
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
That’s on Ange to fix
If you watch that play back Maddison had several passes he could make and instead … lost it
They made several quick passes and were unlucky
What they also did was move off the ball
Our players seem to wait for the ball
Click to expand...
Ultimately as the manager it's on him to fix or adapt.
The difference between say Bergvall and Maddison or Bentancur is stark, older players know the risks, it creeps into them.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s on Ange to fix
If you watch that play back Maddison had several passes he could make and instead … lost it
They made several quick passes and were unlucky
What they also did was move off the ball
Our players seem to wait for the ball
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about how often we don't seem to move well off the ball. Confidence i guess, as we know they can do it
 
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billyiddo said:
That's what the system is supposed to provide - we aren't supposed to have individual freedom like is being suggested - not sure if it was direct from Ange or someone who worked with him but when describing Ange-ball the idea is that when it works it is supposed to look fluid but the reality is everything is preplanned/drilled in to the players, which is no different to Conte and many others
Click to expand...
Ange said it himself in one of his early interviews. He said if it's done well it looks like the players have lots of freedom but it's actually the opposite.

The funny thing is the guy who gave freedom to players was Mourinho who pretty much just leaves it to his creative players to work it out while he concentrates on defensive shape and reactive planning.
 
Bishop said:
Ange said it himself in one of his early interviews. He said if it's done well it looks like the players have lots of freedom but it's actually the opposite.

The funny thing is the guy who gave freedom to players was Mourinho who pretty much just leaves it to his creative players to work it out while he concentrates on defensive shape and reactive planning.
Click to expand...

I don't particularly want our players to have freedom, so I'm not knocking that - it's either the implementation or suitability of the setup that's the problem. Nearly two seasons in and the players looks as far away from playing in a defined style as they did at the beginning - that's the problem
 
Its multi-faceted isn't it?

- The press is all game and intense, though not particularly coordinated. (a big bug bear of mine). So players have less energy for movement when we do get possession.

- Players like Poro, Romero, Oderbert etc have been out the side and can be a bit rusty with passes and just feeling settled and composed.

- Unlike say City, we always look to break quickly. Other sides will often circulate the ball more. And we are not as effective as other teams such as liverpool or bournmouth, who have better stronger attackers for fast breaks. They transition the ball quickly forward better than we can.

- We commit so many man forward, breaking quickly and losing the ball is high high risk. It also tires us out as players yoyo back an forth up the pitch.


There are games such as against Bournmouth, where the opposition are really effective tracking our runs and pressing high to stop passes, were we should adjust. We should show more cunning, and make an extra pass before breaking.

I don't think you can perfectly coordinate breaks. It is quite random where the space will be.
 
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