*** OMT: Mighty Spurs vs Scum ***

[Mrs Vert]

No idea

Got to assume so as he is keeping those on and they are his leadership team

The "leadership" team needs to be looked at again

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The "leadership" team needs to be looked at again

Yep
It’s exactly what Poch has to do
He picked his leaders
He realised he needed different ones

 

[Mrs Vert]

It’s predictable
It’s not easy to defend done well
We haven’t done it well
We have done it at a snails pace
It’s toxic when it’s like that as it builds up the opposition more and more

We haven't done it well cos we cant and the players we have aren't technically good enough? Or it's taking them a lot longer to get it?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We haven't done it well cos we cant and the players we have aren't technically good enough? Or it's taking them a lot longer to get it?

Honestly
I think some are protected because of who they are
And some are because Ange doesn’t know the others can or can’t play
Son can’t play as winger crossing it seems and he can’t control or pass very well. I thought he could do the crossing bit but that’s stopped so he now kills the attacks
It could be because when he gets it off Maddison it’s already slow. Maddison is never hitting a first time pass anymore. Hasn’t hit one since last year. You have to build quickly and he is a huge huge issue
And then lastly Romero. Great passer. Accurate one too. But because he takes so long to do it the whole team against us are set up.
Teams know this every game now
When we attack down our left it will be played wide. Destiny will come in and stop because Maddison is in his space. The ball will end up with son who will swivel a bit and pass back to Maddison to go back to Romero … and repeat
When it goes down our right they just wait for Romero to stop and they know it will go slowly forward and they can just wait for kulu or Porro to bring it into the congested Centre of the pitch and mop it up. They know we won’t push it wide like we’re meant to on the right unless its a last resort

 

[El Guepardo]

For anyone interested (I know many aren’t);

We currently have an Xpts of 6.76. I’d say that’s about right - had we converted either Leic or Newc to wins then we would be on 6 or 7 points and today wouldn’t feel as bad.

The damage was done in those games imo.

We have the 3rd biggest descrepancy of any team in the league (actual vs Xpts) and easily the worst of any team from our position upwards. Saudi Sportswashing Machine for example have Xpts of less than 4, but they’ve massively over achieved in pretty much all of their games.

This stuff SHOULD even itself out, but it has to happen sooner rather than later.

100%. Although derby defeats hurt, and Arsenal at home is the one match which most Spurs supporters would want to win in the season, if only being able to choose one specific match to win, it was not the match which has hurt our season most.

Arsenal are a very good unit team, excellent team. I don’t want to say it, but right now there’s not really a way to go against that. It’s saying it as is. They are a better team than the individual parts. Raised by the success of their system and their players ability to successfully fulfil their individual roles within that system. That’s why even with the two players missing, they remained solid. Anyway my point isn’t about them but rather as a path to my main point which is..

We hurt ourselves through our failure to collect points against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leicester. Those are the matches we should be hurting about, besides neighbourly ego bruising. We need to pick points up against the sides around us in the league, those battling for top 4-6, in addition to picking up points against those sides that will more than likely finish bottom half of the table. Those are the matches that if we can find consistency can define our season. Not defeats against title challengers, when we, ourselves, aren’t close to challenging for the title and likely won’t be for at least a couple more seasons.

So we NEED a result at home v Brentford next weekend. If we fail to win that then Ange will he dipping his quill in the ink of his managerial eulogy at our club and the whispering dissent will only get louder.

I would play the first team against Coventry midweek. We need to find answers to the questions that have been asked, most specifically of our attack. We need to find confidence and create attacking patterns that can serve us in the matches ahead. If we rotate too heavily then any short term gains of giving minutes to youth players and other squad players risks being more damaging in future to our season irrespective of if we qualify for the next round.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

100%. Although derby defeats hurt, and Arsenal at home is the one match which most Spurs supporters would want to win in the season, if only being able to choose one specific match to win, it was not the match which has hurt our season most.

Arsenal are a very good unit team, excellent team. I don’t want to say it, but right now there’s not really a way to go against that. It’s saying it as is. They are a better team than the individual parts. Raised by the success of their system and their players ability to successfully fulfil their individual roles within that system. That’s why even with the two players missing, they remained solid. Anyway my point isn’t about them but rather as a path to my main point which is..

We hurt ourselves through our failure to collect points against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leicester. Those are the matches we should be hurting about, besides neighbourly ego bruising. We need to pick points up against the sides around us in the league, those battling for top 4-6, in addition to picking up points against those sides that will more than likely finish bottom half of the table. Those are the matches that if we can find consistency can define our season. Not defeats against title challengers, when we, ourselves, aren’t close to challenging for the title and likely won’t be for at least a couple more seasons.

So we NEED a result at home v Brentford next weekend. If we fail to win that then Ange will he dipping his quill in the ink of his managerial eulogy at our club and the whispering dissent will only get louder.

I would play the first team against Coventry midweek. We need to find answers to the questions that have been asked, most specifically of our attack. We need to find confidence and create attacking patterns that can serve us in the matches ahead. If we rotate too heavily then any short term gains of giving minutes to youth players and other squad players risks being more damaging in future to our season irrespective of if we qualify for the next round.

I really wouldn’t play the first team vs Coventry
He needs to see some of the younger guys play, otherwise it will be the same again except the talent will win rather than the football.

 

[Jurgen the German]

We need everyone to be better
Maddison is worryingly spending too much time doing a Poor man Scott parker
Hands like today show me why son isn’t a winger
Romero again just switched off at the wrong time (de ja vu)
They are senior players
They are the leaders apparently
But I never seen leadership
The rest are all still players who can go and up and down but some are also developing
Ange has big, brave calls to make

But our biggest issues are we don’t create enough, we don’t punish teams when we are on top and we concede soft goals.

 

[markysimmo]

How on earth did Gray & Bergvall not get any minutes yesterday !!

 

[Bishop]

We ain’t going away from Ange ball
Just be nice to see it again

If Ange ball is passing slowly through the middle until you eventually pass to inadequate wingers to then just bang aimless crosses I to an area not taking into account the actual players present then we won't be seeing Ange ball past this season. He'll lose his job.

We haven't done it well cos we cant and the players we have aren't technically good enough? Or it's taking them a lot longer to get it?

It's the former, our wide players are mediocre and DO NOT suit the system he wants to play. If you're going to pass it slowly and probe then you need players able to play the killer pass in congested areas, players who can control that same killer ball in congested areas and players who can dribble past players in congested areas. Can you honestly look at the attributes of Johnson, Son, Werner, Richy, Kulu and Solanke and say those are players who suit those requirements?

We play two incompatible systems. Both can work individually but together with the players we have they will come unstuck as much as they will work. We have fast counter attack suited forwards but play slow intricate probing football. I don't mind either system, both have their merits but together with this level of technical player it's not going to work.

 

[Grays_1890]

Game of two poor sides yesterday not doing much and us getting punished for being toothless.

The plus point being that a pretty decent Arsenal side on paper were equally poor and the distance between both sides does not look massive (I know they are missing bodies).

We seem to be stuck in second gear here TBH, nowhere near wheels fallen off situations but if we don't start getting creative and or taking chances we are going to struggle

 

[markysimmo]

Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, slow passing, back, to the side, slow

BOORRRR-ING

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If Ange ball is passing slowly through the middle until you eventually pass to inadequate wingers to then just bang aimless crosses I to an area not taking into account the actual players present then we won't be seeing Ange ball past this season. He'll lose his job.

It's the former, our wide players are mediocre and DO NOT suit the system he wants to play. If you're going to pass it slowly and probe then you need players able to play the killer pass in congested areas, players who can control that same killer ball in congested areas and players who can dribble past players in congested areas. Can you honestly look at the attributes of Johnson, Son, Werner, Richy, Kulu and Solanke and say those are players who suit those requirements?

We play two incompatible systems. Both can work individually but together with the players we have they will come unstuck as much as they will work. We have fast counter attack suited forwards but play slow intricate probing football. I don't mind either system, both have their merits but together with this level of technical player it's not going to work.

That is not ange ball
But it’s up to him to fix it
The way we get the ball to the attaches us so so so slow their dead before they get it

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think levy will sack ange if he doesn't get us to 5th and Europe

Yep.

I'm booked in for the home Europa league games.

I usually do 6 or so games a season. Yesterday was my first Derby in so long and frankly I thought we were brick.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Game of two poor sides yesterday not doing much and us getting punished for being toothless.

The plus point being that a pretty decent Arsenal side on paper were equally poor and the distance between both sides does not look massive (I know they are missing bodies).

We seem to be stuck in second gear here TBH, nowhere near wheels fallen off situations but if we don't start getting creative and or taking chances we are going to struggle

Agreed
They were not doing anything
We were slow and meandering
Poor game technically unless your a fan of old school football

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The kid they brought on late is their Mikey Moore equivalent
Moore can’t get in our squad
Says a lot about how we see things as a club and team

 

[El Guepardo]

The kid they brought on late is their Mikey Moore equivalent
Moore can’t get in our squad
Says a lot about how we see things as a club and team

So Arsenal’s depth is such that they have to force a youth talent into first team squad whereas we let our’s develop before they are selected for a NLD….. is another way to look at it.

Mikey Moore only turned 17 in August. Nwaneri turned 17 in March, that’s a 5 month difference which can be significant. Let’s see where Moore is in 5 months time. The fact that he’s being talked up a lot outside of the club and its supporters would suggest that he actually is a generational talent but his time isn’t there just yet.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So Arsenal’s depth is such that they have to force a youth talent into first team squad whereas we let our’s develop before they are selected for a NLD….. is another way to look at it.

Mikey Moore only turned 17 in August. Nwaneri turned 17 in March, that’s a 5 month difference which can be significant. Let’s see where Moore is in 5 months time. The fact that he’s being talked up a lot outside of the club and its supporters would suggest that he actually is a generational talent but his time isn’t there just yet.

No
They aren’t scared of trying things because they have confidence in their set up and team
That takes time of course
The way we stick with playing the same team is actually quite toxic IMO and makes Ange look naive rather than intelligent. He changed the tactics in the end but we still looked like we had no plan
He needs ball players and two of the most technically capable ones we have are kids (Moore and Donley)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Lots of valid points in this thread.

We couldn’t get through as they are well organised, so attempted some crosses which were abysmal.

One thing I’m scratching my head about is the Odobert signing. Not saying I don’t rate him or he won’t come good but we had 2 for the left and 2 for the right.

His end product looks very questionable to me - so will be interesting to see what data was used to spend 30m.

Bergval and Gray not deemed good enough for minutes today - what was the point of those signings. Just for the manager after Ange?

All very confusing to me.

Edit: Just to add. The players just don’t look good enough, and when you lose when you’re the better team (Leic/Newc) it doesn’t give you any margin on games like today. It’s a bad recipe when you’re losing both.

Odobert is 19 and still has lots of developing to do. I’d suggested him as a good option for a signing but said buy and then loan back to Burnley would be sensible.

In terms of what he has. Two feet. Great touch, explosive pace, able to receive the ball when under pressure and has the ability to beat a player on either side. End product is what needs development (as almost all players of his age)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Hmmn, just home after that dismal showing. Is there any good news? Anything positive? Did anyone have a really good game (Mickey VDV? Bentancur?).
I saw nothing whatsoever to encourage me to think we will get out of this rut, but maybe Arsenal are just too good, and Brentford will be a better test. Lose that and the crowd's patience with Ange will start wearing thin I suspect. As for recruitment - bloody hell, if Odobert is the level of our ambition, then this could be a horrible season....we seem to be accumulating players with potential and "good character" but where are the players for right now?

We neither have the pull to attract those sorts of players and neither does the club want to spend the funds required to pay the wages for those players.

The question here IMO is whether we want to do enough to stay around 4th to 6th place finishes for the next decade or so by signing a ‘big’ player or two wach window or build a talented, young squad that can perhaps really have a proper challenge in two or three years’ time?

I’d rather the latter. I think doing this perhaps risks missing out on Europe altogether but it is the only way for us to get to the summit. In 3 or 4 transfer window’s time we might then be at the point where we can just look for one really special first team player each summer window

 

[Mikey10]

We neither have the pull to attract those sorts of players and neither does the club want to spend the funds required to pay the wages for those players.

The question here IMO is whether we want to do enough to stay around 4th to 6th place finishes for the next decade or so by signing a ‘big’ player or two wach window or build a talented, young squad that can perhaps really have a proper challenge in two or three years’ time?

I’d rather the latter. I think doing this perhaps risks missing out on Europe altogether but it is the only way for us to get to the summit. In 3 or 4 transfer window’s time we might then be at the point where we can just look for one really special first team player each summer window

We’ve been sold this model for a long time. Never reaches fruition though.