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**** OMT Arsenal v Tottenham Hotspur ****

Bishop said:
Add all of that and we really aren't comparable to Liverpool. Their approach was very different to our own.

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Their initial approach in year 1-2 under Klopp was also long ball, much more so than people acknowledge
 
Bishop said:
I was not particularly moved by the interest in Madddison but if he's what we need then so be it.

I often see people compare our midfield with the Liverpool one that has been so successful in recent seasons but that comparison always misses some key factors.

Liverpool played with 3 in the middle and pressed high so whilst their individual quality may not have been exceptional they had the numbers in a key area to compensate. Then add that they played 3 genuinely creative attackers who can both pass and dribble and you see why their midfield didn't need to be so creative.

We have 1 player comparable in Kulu. He can both dribble and pass. Kane can pass but his passing is very much over a long distance, his short passing game is nothing special. Son and Richy's passing ranges are very bread and butter, nothing out of the ordinary. I'd actually argue their passing is very ordinary.

It leaves us in a bit of a pickle. The two midfielders are good players who can pass well at times but too often they overrun and don't have the time to make the pass. I really do think we put them under too much pressure. They almost have to play the perfect game, with little room for error for the system to work. I don't think either are of that level to make every single pass count.

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It's also about the CBs pushing up closer to support the midfield and the strikers taking turns to drop back and advance again to cause confusion that helps. Sometimes we look rather flat and static. The three up front waiting for something the three at the back only able to go backwards instead of holding the space confidently.

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thfcsteff said:
It is why I think -for Conte- Zaniolo will be the priority this January. Indeed, I would not be surprised if he has already been lined up. He is the only player of interest who could fit Deccy’s role somewhat (better dribbler than passer)
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But this is nonsense!
Zaniolo is a dribbler. We need someone that can interplay, pass, make through balls, provide assists, not a dribbler. So how the heck can Zaniolo be the priority if he is a totally different style to Kulu?
 
Bullet said:
But this is nonsense!
Zaniolo is a dribbler. We need someone that can interplay, pass, make through balls, provide assists, not a dribbler. So how the heck can Zaniolo be the priority if he is a totally different style to Kulu?
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He is actually similar to kulu
Dribbler - check
Retains the ball - check
Scores goals - check
Physically strong - check
His passing isn’t as good
 
billyiddo said:
His goal record is pretty poor
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It is
But remember the previous conversation when some goals weren’t being used in his records
And he has played for super defensive sides
I’d like him or Maddison
Maddison could play central if we ever played that way and is HG. Also has a good fitness record
Both would be similar money
We need a player like one of these two in January if we want to progress
 
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Bullet said:
But this is nonsense!
Zaniolo is a dribbler. We need someone that can interplay, pass, make through balls, provide assists, not a dribbler. So how the heck can Zaniolo be the priority if he is a totally different style to Kulu?
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He is absolutely not ‘totally different’. His passing is not as good as Deccy (I’d say Deccy is a unique talent in that regard) but Zaniolo fits the Conte profile for a right forward (left-footed, an absolute unit, great strength on the ball, good short, scores and can carry the ball). I feel sorry for Richarlison right now as he is not getting the chance to play where he operates best (either off the left on uptop).
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It is
But remember the previous conversation when some goals weren’t being used in his records
And he has played for super defensive sides
I’d like him or Maddison
Maddison could play central if we ever played that way and is HG. Also has a good fitness record
Both would be similar money
We need a player like one of these two in January if we want to progress
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I think Maddison would be a great signing if Conte is prepared to use him. He would allow for an excellent 3-5-2 switch too, but again, we have to have Conte favour that sometimes (even mid-game). I prefer his style personally, but I believe we will go in for Zaniolo again.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think Maddison would be a great signing if Conte is prepared to use him. He would allow for an excellent 3-5-2 switch too, but again, we have to have Conte favour that sometimes (even mid-game). I prefer his style personally, but I believe we will go in for Zaniolo again.
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I don’t think Roma will sell
I think Leicester will
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It is
But remember the previous conversation when some goals weren’t being used in his records
And he has played for super defensive sides
I’d like him or Maddison
Maddison could play central if we ever played that way and is HG. Also has a good fitness record
Both would be similar money
We need a player like one of these two in January if we want to progress
Click to expand...

Not impressed with Zaniolo in the slightest tbh
 
thfcsteff said:
He is absolutely not ‘totally different’. His passing is not as good as Deccy (I’d say Deccy is a unique talent in that regard) but Zaniolo fits the Conte profile for a right forward (left-footed, an absolute unit, great strength on the ball, good short, scores and can carry the ball). I feel sorry for Richarlison right now as he is not getting the chance to play where he operates best (either off the left on uptop).
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Deki links play and assists whenever he can.
Zaniolo does not sound like that.
We need someone to link things together, not someone who wants to drive and shoot.
 
Bullet said:
Deki links play and assists whenever he can.
Zaniolo does not sound like that.
We need someone to link things together, not someone who wants to drive and shoot.
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We need someone who can pass to one of our own players first and foremost
 
billyiddo said:
Not impressed with Zaniolo in the slightest tbh
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I don't disagree...however, for what Conte wants, he ticks a lot of boxes. Weird as it might be, I think one of the things which counts against Maddison in his eyes is height. I think he really wants as big a team as possible.
 
Bullet said:
Deki links play and assists whenever he can.
Zaniolo does not sound like that.
We need someone to link things together, not someone who wants to drive and shoot.
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Have you watched him? Deccy is a unique player with unique skill-sets. Zaniolo is not a carbon copy by any stretch, but he ticks several important Conte boxes, including holding onto the ball and driving at defences.

Again, I think it is important to remember how unique Deccy is.
 
thfcsteff said:
Have you watched him? Deccy is a unique player with unique skill-sets. Zaniolo is not a carbon copy by any stretch, but he ticks several important Conte boxes, including holding onto the ball and driving at defences.

Again, I think it is important to remember how unique Deccy is.
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We need less of a driving player and more of a passer. Being able to beat the player is a great attribute but we need someone who is great at finding others in tight and awkward spaces.

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Bullet said:
I don't understand your question. He literally says 352 at the start of his post.
Then we make some use of Bissouma and/or Skipp.
And we have a fresh forward on the bench, once the teams get tired.
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Sorry, I obviously didn't read the original message properly.

The problem with going 3-5-2 is that in many ways we then carry even less attacking threat. We're basically sacrificing an attacking player for another defensive one. If we wanted to go 3-5-2 then I think we'd need to do that by putting a creative, attacking central player in there, like a Maddison type and we don't really have one of those. Without a Maddison type in a 3-5-2 we'd be even more reliant on our wing backs creating something (not particularly likely at the moment) or on Kane dropping deep to feed whichever one of Son or Richarlison were selected to play alongside him up top.

The only way that I could see us playing 3 in the middle working at the moment is us playing a 4-3-3 type formation, sacrificing one of the centre backs (probably Dier) to instead play an out and out holder in midfield (probably Bissouma). Romero and Lenglet/Davies can then fan out wide when we're out of possession to cover runners from wide areas with Bissouma slotting in to solidify the centre. Relies on the full backs having to make a huge number of sprints in a game (as Walker and Rose used to under Poch) but might give us a reasonable balance between attack and defence.
 
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