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Oliver Skipp

billyiddo said:
It's because when you split passes only in to forward and backward it doesn't account for all the sideways passes that are deemed forwards because they happen to be a couple of degrees forward
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But they are forward a passes
And of course when you show them people kinda ignore them
A cross can go backwards and still be creative and lead to a goal
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But they are forward a passes
And of course when you show them people kinda ignore them
A cross can go backwards and still be creative and lead to a goal
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Forward passes if you only look at passes as forward or backward - if you introduce sideways as a direction then no they are not
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But they are forward a passes
And of course when you show them people kinda ignore them
A cross can go backwards and still be creative and lead to a goal
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Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one cares if the pass is forward 5 minutes after the pass should have been made. Besides as Billy mentions a lot of those forward passes are sideways.

I notice you didn't address what I said re timing of the pass being important. You seem stuck on this idea of forward/backward complete or not complete as if that's all their is to a passing game. [emoji854]
 
Bishop said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse? No one cares if the pass is forward 5 minutes after the pass should have been made. Besides as Billy mentions a lot of those forward passes are sideways.

I notice you didn't address what I said re timing of the pass being important. You seem stuck on this idea of forward/backward complete or not complete as if that's all their is to a passing game. [emoji854]
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How do you judge an informant pass?
If the player receives it and loses it, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t an important pass
 
Bedfordspurs said:
How do you judge an informant pass?
If the player receives it and loses it, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t an important pass
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You have to watch. How well was the ball played. Was it pinged in with no way it could be controlled? Was it played nicely into the players stride making easy control? Did it have a soft weight so again it was easy to control? Or was it slammed forward giving the receiver no chance of controlling it comfortably?

Was the ball played when the defence were on the heels giving the receiver plenty of time to control and at on or was it played with 2 defenders at their back again meaning it very unlikely to be controlled and kept?

These things are far more important and informative than whether or not a player has 93% pass completion. I would 100% expect Winks pre Conte to have high pass completion because he only ever played safe slow nothing passes.

You know as well as me (other than when it's your favourites [emoji28]) what a killer ball is. It's all to do with the timing, positioning and execution. I'll take 5 almost hitting the mark killer passes over 25 safe to feet slow nothing passes. One might of those might get us a goal, the other never will.
 
Bishop said:
You have to watch. How well was the ball played. Was it pinged in with no way it could be controlled? Was it played nicely into the players stride making easy control? Did it have a soft weight so again it was easy to control? Or was it slammed forward giving the receiver no chance of controlling it comfortably?

Was the ball played when the defence were on the heels giving the receiver plenty of time to control and at on or was it played with 2 defenders at their back again meaning it very unlikely to be controlled and kept?

These things are far more important and informative than whether or not a player has 93% pass completion. I would 100% expect Winks pre Conte to have high pass completion because he only ever played safe slow nothing passes.

You know as well as me (other than when it's your favourites [emoji28]) what a killer ball is. It's all to do with the timing, positioning and execution. I'll take 5 almost hitting the mark killer passes over 25 safe to feet slow nothing passes. One might of those might get us a goal, the other never will.
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Today winks played several key passes or BIG chance passes (3) that were not executed
That’s what the stats don’t show unless you dig deeper
But as I say people watch a game and see what they wanna see sometimes (and I’m not arguing about today just using todays stats)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Today winks played several key passes or BIG chance passes (3) that were not executed
That’s what the stats don’t show unless you dig deeper
But as I say people watch a game and see what they wanna see sometimes (and I’m not arguing about today just using todays stats)
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Similarly he could have played 3 brick passes and the stats would show no difference which is my point. Completion stats in isolation tell us nothing.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
they wouldn’t be key passes then
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But we weren't talking about key passes. The conversation was about the usefulness of pass completion stats.

Regarding key passes although that is changing the conversation, strictly speaking a bad pass will still be recorded as a key pass of the receiver has an attempt on goal. Again the raw stat doesn't record the quality of the pass just the outcome.

Of course usually a key pass would be at least a decent pass but you I'm sure have seen situations where that is not the case, I know I have.
 
Bishop said:
But we weren't talking about key passes. The conversation was about the usefulness of pass completion stats.

Regarding key passes although that is changing the conversation, strictly speaking a bad pass will still be recorded as a key pass of the receiver has an attempt on goal. Again the raw stat doesn't record the quality of the pass just the outcome.

Of course usually a key pass would be at least a decent pass but you I'm sure have seen situations where that is not the case, I know I have.
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Plenty of times
And earlier I was referring to key passes in todays game
I’ll be honest and say I don’t know how they create that metric, what’s the criteria?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Plenty of times
And earlier I was referring to key passes in todays game
I’ll be honest and say I don’t know how they create that metric, what’s the criteria?
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A pass that leads to an attempt on goal.

The official opta definition:

"The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring."

Which surprises Mez opta don't actually count key passes of you do score. I hadn't realised that until I double checked the definition. [emoji15]
 
Bishop said:
A pass that leads to an attempt on goal.

The official opta definition:

"The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring."

Which surprises Mez opta don't actually count key passes of you do score. I hadn't realised that until I double checked the definition. [emoji15]
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That’s stats
It’s why I agree you need context
But as I’ve said before you can show people evidence and they will argue
I’ve been at games when players have been singled out who weren’t even on the pitch because people see what they wanna see sometimes
I thought Sanchez had a poor game vs Norwich. He had his worst game statistically I think too (iirc) but plenty disagreed with me. It’s opinions of course
Is also thought Tanguy was poor vs pool, or average at best, but some people said his average is better than everyone else’s so it’s worth it…. I mean that’s odd imo but again it’s opinions
 
markysimmo said:
View attachment 13393
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I take "stats" like this with a massive lump of salt. Need a huge sample size before it could possibly be meaningful.

That being said we missed Skipp yesterday. If he wasn't already he should now be ahead of Hojbjerg in the pecking order imo.

Wouldn't have transformed our team of course. Bit more quick effective passing through midfield in the first half, bit more tempo in our passing second half. Could have been good.

Perhaps an awareness of not overplaying young Skipp at this point is part of it?
 
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