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O/T The England Thread

indianspur said:
Shelvey has been highly rated since his Charlton days.....Jamie Redknapp raved about him back then, and still does. Spurs were apparently very interested in him back then, so Harry Redknapp must have been sufficiently impressed

I see more in Shelvey than i do in Henderson for example. Anyway there is a dearth of talented English players coming through, whatever we make of the Gerrards and Lampards, I think soon enough we will appreciate them a bit more when we see what the future holds.
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So was John Bostock and we actually did buy him ! Shelvey's not a bad player and he's already better than Henderson ! but in the Prem he's looked a bit out of his depth so far, had a couple of good games in the cups though against lower league opposition, so guess he's been included because of that.

I think for the most part the criticism of Lampard / Gerrard is not so much directed at them, but the weak / clueless management continuely trying to shoe horn both of them in a 4-4-2, when they've been screaming out for deep playmaker / holder to be played behind either or both of them for 10 years! It started to be addressed when Barry came in for a few games and Parker more recently, but seems that whenever Lamp and Gerrard are fit they'll play together somehow.
 
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indianspur said:
Michael Carrick chose to miss the Euros because his wife wanted him to be available for the summer holidays with her and the kids..... allegedly

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Hodgson definitely appreciates hard work and commitment. I think he would like to marry that with ball playing ability too, but to find the players that offer both is quite hard

Watching England under Hodgson has been ok for me. Certainly no different to watching most England sides under years. The only England teams i really really loved watching were under Bobby Robson when he had players like Gascoigne, Waddle, Lineker, Beardsley available, and under venables during Euro 96
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But the whole reason there was an issue with Carrick was because Hodgson told him he wasn't part of his starting plans. If it was me I would have still gone anyway, but you can't blame him for being tinkled off when he should be one of the 1st names on the team sheet (due to not actually having anyone else who can keep the ball, the very thing Roy's been complaining about since - poor mans Pirlo).

I liked Hoddle's side for the most part as well, not as dynamic as Robson's or Venables but still a good side.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
But the whole reason there was an issue with Carrick was because Hodgson told him he wasn't part of his starting plans. If it was me I would have still gone anyway, but you can't blame him for being tinkled off when he should be one of the 1st names on the team sheet (due to not actually having anyone else who can keep the ball, the very thing Roy's been complaining about since - poor mans Pirlo).

I liked Hoddle's side for the most part as well, not as dynamic as Robson's or Venables but still a good side.
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but how arrogant is it for a player to demand to know if he is to be part of the starting 11? especially from a manager with his feet barely through the door in a new job. what if Hodgson said yes, and Carrick was shocking in training.

no player should demand to be in the starting 11 for their country...imo. Anyway, like i said, there seemed to be other influences which made Carrick make the decision he did

Yes, Hoddle was impressive too. one thing that Hoddle, Venables and Robson had in common was the talent they had to pick from. Compare those players to what is available now and we see what a job Hodgson (whoever is in charge) has to contend with
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
But the whole reason there was an issue with Carrick was because Hodgson told him he wasn't part of his starting plans. If it was me I would have still gone anyway, but you can't blame him for being tinkled off when he should be one of the 1st names on the team sheet (due to not actually having anyone else who can keep the ball, the very thing Roy's been complaining about since - poor mans Pirlo).
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That's one version of the story, another is that Carrick had asked not to be considered for England back in January.... supposedly he meant while Capello was manager, but Hodgson was told he'd retired from international football so didn't even approach him about the euros.
 
spursworm said:
apparently zaha is decent as is sterling, but other than that not too many coming through. seems a lot of highly rated youngsters fail to really take it to the top level. macachran and wickham evidence of that
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Don't worry the coming generation will be just as talented/limited as the prevous one and the one before that.
Getting big names and ego in the Premier League, steamroll poor nations in the qualifying phase, get hyped up before tournament and then out played by faster more skillfull players in the knock out phase of said tournament.

Connor Wickham would have been considered just as talented as Zaha if he has stayed in the Championship, taken a step up too early. Not the playing type for early senior breakthrough.
I'm sure he'll be Crouch'esque

Hart, Butland
Walker, Clyne, Smith, Wisdom, Kelly
Caulker, Chalobah, Shawcross, Smalling, Jones, C.Dawson
Gibbs, Clark
Shelvey, Rodwell
Wheelchair, Ince, Powell, McEachran, Gardner, I.Brown, Rossiter, Lundstram
Sterling, OxC, Roberts, Zaha, Pritchard, Townsend, Mitchell, Redmond, Allassani, Phillips, Onomah
Welbeck, Campbell, Sturridge, Wickham, Kane, Bennett, Morgan, Fewster

etc. etc.

They will be just as good as what you've watched last decade
 
rosenthal said:
Don't worry the coming generation will be just as talented/limited as the prevous one and the one before that.
Getting big names and ego in the Premier League, steamroll poor nations in the qualifying phase, get hyped up before tournament and then out played by faster more skillfull players in the knock out phase of said tournament.

Connor Wickham would have been considered just as talented as Zaha if he has stayed in the Championship, taken a step up too early. Not the playing type for early senior breakthrough.
I'm sure he'll be Crouch'esque

Hart, Butland
Walker, Clyne, Smith, Wisdom, Kelly
Caulker, Chalobah, Shawcross, Smalling, Jones, C.Dawson
Gibbs, Clark
Shelvey, Rodwell
Wheelchair, Ince, Powell, McEachran, Gardner, I.Brown, Rossiter, Lundstram
Sterling, OxC, Roberts, Zaha, Pritchard, Townsend, Mitchell, Redmond, Allassani, Phillips, Onomah
Welbeck, Campbell, Sturridge, Wickham, Kane, Bennett, Morgan, Fewster

etc. etc.

They will be just as good as what you've watched last decade
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That is an interesting list. looking at the strikers in particular that is worrying. kane has no chance of being good enough imv and frazier campbell likewise. wickham probably has moved too early but where does that leave his career? dont know much about the others but here morgan is rated at liverpool despite never playing.
 
spursworm said:
That is an interesting list. looking at the strikers in particular that is worrying. kane has no chance of being good enough imv and frazier campbell likewise. wickham probably has moved too early but where does that leave his career? dont know much about the others but here morgan is rated at liverpool despite never playing.
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interesting? its scary. It clearly highlights the lack of quality in all positions.
 
The problem is that anyone half decent will be snapped up by PL clubs far too early. Usually it's their build that has made them look good at lower levels, but they lack the necessary skill/pace to be top players. And the media hype them up beyond belief without ever having done anything, making everyone think they are amazing talents. Some can become good players through years of hard work (ie. Crouch, Holt), but most of those coming through at the big clubs lack the right mentality, they think their talent alone will be enough.
 
Jordinho said:
The problem is that anyone half decent will be snapped up by PL clubs far too early. Usually it's their build that has made them look good at lower levels, but they lack the necessary skill/pace to be top players. And the media hype them up beyond belief without ever having done anything, making everyone think they are amazing talents. Some can become good players through years of hard work (ie. Crouch, Holt), but most of those coming through at the big clubs lack the right mentality, they think their talent alone will be enough.
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looking at you john bostock
 
spursworm said:
kane has no chance of being good enough imv and frazier campbell likewise.
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That'd be Adam Campbell, who ran riot on Spurs U21 team earlier this season at the age of 17
Kane, as I've said many times before, is doing much better than comparable Teddy Sheringham was at the same age. He's the type of player that will improve with age, it's the quick expressive players that impress at young age.
 
Adam Smith, Steven Caulker and Danny Rose all start in England's back four in today's UEFA U-21 Play-Off 2nd Leg in Serbia.

Andros Townsend is on the bench.
 
Danny Rose doing well again, although it is only against a country with a population of 30k. Right Arcs :mickey:
 
Rose gets racially abused, goes mad and gets a 2nd yellow and sent off, ridiculous...

Serbian fans, throwing stuff, monkey noises the lot, scumbags...

Their players and staff even worse throwing punches and kicks at anybody wearing an England kit, fudging bunch of ****s

No doubt FIFA will do nothing
 
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