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Next Manager?

elltrev said:
On the Poch defence thing, I would just add that in our best season under him - 16/17 - Dier started 23 matches at centre back, and Davies started more than Rose at left back (most of them in the second half of the season, when we were especially dominant).

I’m not necessarily saying it changes loads, but the Walker-Toby-Jan-Rose narrative isn’t wholly accurate.
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Dier was also injured for nearly all of Poch's last year in charge.
 
treepits said:
That’s my point though. People saying they disappointed in conte when he’s a pl and serie a winner but desperate for poch who doesn’t have anything like the honours conte has
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8 don't think the reservations are regarding his CV which is A star but instead the practicalities of him working with Levy.

Conte is a man who takes no brick, he demands what he feels he needs to win and if he doesn't get that he's not afraid to first publicly complain and then if things are still not to his liking resign and walk out of the job. He has done this multiple times now.

When you contrast that with the iron stubbornness of Daniel Levy it does suggest a falling out between the pair and in the short term.

Will Conte get the backing he demands? And if he doesn't will he just walk leaving us once again searching for another manager.

What is our approach? Short term gain or long term stability?

That's not even taking into account the style of football he plays and if it meshes with our existing squad and club ethos.

I'm open minded with his football, like Jose I don't believe his football is always as negative as perceived but there is a degree of reactive philosophy present.

I would say that while Mourinho is yesterday's man, the hot thing of the 00s Conte is probably his closest counter part in the 10s and 20s era.
 
billyiddo said:
Everton are a fair comparison because they are the closest club to us in terms of investment in the playing side (in fact they probably invested more in combined wages and net transfer spend)
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Funny thing is, I looked at Everton's squad in 2014/15 and I didn't remember Eto'o 'played' there. It's always difficult to judge in hindsight but I can't see many of their players walking into our first XI. Lukaku, certainly, and I remember I liked Baines back in the day. They had Barry and Barkley and also Pienaar, who had already flopped here despite being considered a top player there. You could also look at it the other way around and say that a team is only as strong as its weakest player but it's even more difficult to judge in retrospect.

My point is that even with the same level of investment (I haven't checked but I believe you) we didn't start from the same point. After taking a closer look, I'll give you that it's arguable but, in terms of results, we were a step ahead of them, so I think it's not exactly the same thing. I still don't agree with the comparison, but it has given me food for thought.

Robspur12 said:
“Raw talent” is something the players have, it is not something you assign to any manager. However with raw talent comes you have to add coaching, mentoring, motivation and opportunities. That’s what the top managers do. Ferguson did that for Ronaldo, Guardiola for Messi and Poch for Kane. Why are fans so quick to fall over themselves to prove that Harry Kane would have been the great player he is without the intervention of someone like Poch? I suspect there are many players who have had raw talent but not made the grade because that talent hasn’t been properly harnessed.
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Couldn't agree more but I think that all success stories have an element of chance. Another manager could have ignored Kane but, likewise, maybe a different manager would have had him performing even better. He had his best season under Mourinho, for instance. The reason why people don't associate people like Ferguson and Guardiola to Ronaldo's and Messi's success is because they have done it repeatedly, under different managers. So has Kane. Having said that, there's no doubt Pochettino played a role in his rise but I wouldn't give him all the credit either.


Robspur12 said:
what’s your point? We had also only got there once. We were hardly the regular Champions league team that we became under him. Nor do I remember us ever in our history getting to a final of the European champions Cup. Jose Mourinho, one of the greatest managers in the game couldn’t get us in the top 4. AVB, a Europa cup winner another couldn’t get us Champions League football or above Arsenal, Ramos a multiple Europa cup winner and one of the most highly regarded managers in Spain at the time couldn’t get near the top 4. So in that context what Poch achieved here was pretty amazing.
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My point is that we weren't on a par with Everton so saying 'if he'd done the same thing with Everton' is stretching it, in my opinion. I feel we were in a better place and I seriously doubt he (or anyone else, for that matter) could have done the same thing with them at the time.


Robspur12 said:
Agreed on this point. However, the context around winning trophies with Poch is somewhat unfair given the sides he has managed before PSG, were a relegation threatened and broke Espanyol, a perennial relegation threatened Southampton and Spurs. Not sure who would have won trophies with those clubs on their CV?
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True but by the same token, Eddie Howe is one of the best managers in the world too. Not sure who would have won trophies with Bournemouth and Burnley.
 
Legohamster said:
Manager wants players to succeed and not give the bunch of losers we have a third manager to fail

Spurs look elsewhere for a yes man
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It'll be pretty damning if that's the reason we don't get Conte.

Levy's reputation is seriously in the balance here. If we don't get someone in a similar league to Conte/Poch and this is the reason for it, he's lost all credibility.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
It's a comparison that doesn't make much sense because he had a much better squad to start with than he'd have at Everton - and I think that's the point bedford makes. He did so with a limited budget and nobody's denying that he did a great job, but he was lucky to get the best striker in the world for free. And yes, he was lucky. Kane's raw talent has nothing to do with Pochettino, just like nobody credits Ferguson for Ronaldo's career, and rightly so. Likewise, Guardiola didn't 'make' Messi.

When it took over, we had already played in the Champions League, something Everton have done once (I think) since the creation of the competition. If he had done the same with Arsenal, who from what I remember, were roughly on a par with us when he took over, he'd be considered a very good manager but a trophyless one too. And that's what he is (except for that French Cup he's won a couple of weeks ago). I don't think anyone outside the Spurs community considers him as one of the best managers in the world. We had a great run, again, nobody denies that but he needs to be there on a regular basis to be considered amongst the best.
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A little disingenuous to compare us with Arsenal, we had a much smaller wage budget and they had qualified for CL 20 years in a row and were 10 points ahead of us the season before Poch joined (I think we also finished below Everton!)

I do agree that whilst he deserves massive credit for the huge strides he made with us there is an open question on whether he can deliver again, which is what separates the greatest managers from the very good ones.
The consistency he gave us to become a CL club is far more impressive to me than picking up a cup trophy or indeed that very un Spurs like run to the CL final.

The fact it was achieved with so many constraints tempers the fact that the results were falling away during the second half of his last season, but I’d really like to see the types of players he signs in different circumstance as I’m not sure we can lump all the blame purely on Levy and Hitchin for our inability to replace the players that Poch inherited or signed in that first summer with players of a similar quality (Which in no way excuses the impact of the summer we didn’t spend at all)
 
Bishop said:
8 don't think the reservations are regarding his CV which is A star but instead the practicalities of him working with Levy.

Conte is a man who takes no brick, he demands what he feels he needs to win and if he doesn't get that he's not afraid to first publicly complain and then if things are still not to his liking resign and walk out of the job. He has done this multiple times now.

When you contrast that with the iron stubbornness of Daniel Levy it does suggest a falling out between the pair and in the short term.

Will Conte get the backing he demands? And if he doesn't will he just walk leaving us once again searching for another manager.

What is our approach? Short term gain or long term stability?

That's not even taking into account the style of football he plays and if it meshes with our existing squad and club ethos.

I'm open minded with his football, like Jose I don't believe his football is always as negative as perceived but there is a degree of reactive philosophy present.

I would say that while Mourinho is yesterday's man, the hot thing of the 00s Conte is probably his closest counter part in the 10s and 20s era.
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It’s exactly where most of us see things with conte
He hasn’t been long term anywhere
But he has been successful everywhere post sienna
I guess Levy is still very much focussed on profile of the club hence a name manager. That can help with profile and revenue
 
Gazza said:
When Mourinho joined you had similar responses and left the board, you are now doing the same thing with Conte ... WHEN he is paraded as the new tottenham manager will you be leaving again?
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Not sure. I've been so out of love with football since the Poch sacking and VAR took all the joy out of it. The Mason appointment followed by anticipation of a new progressive project coach (Poch/Lopetegui/ten Hag/Potter) hooked me in a bit again. But I'm not sure I could do another 12 months of trying to be Woolworths Chelsea, leading inevitably to more long-term decline
 
I think all the things reportedly bothering Conte are good for the club. He wants to win and wants the club to have the foundation and mindset to win as well. How anyone is perceiving that as a negative is mind blowing.

If we fail to sign him as manager it'll just highlight what the clubs mentality is. There is nothing that I've seen that reports him asking for anything outlandish. I he was to walk away and we got someone else, even Poch I would be questioning their mentality and desire.
 
This is starting to look very sexy. If we do not get Conte now or Poch we are going to look like right clams again.
 
XGraham and more money for players would be the next best thing to Poch’s return. Does it really matter if we “look like clams” to the twitterati?

Looks like the latest doubts are negotiating brinksmanship by the Conte camp - which is just another reason why this is a bad idea.
 
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