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New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Athletic piece part 1.
It’s amazing to think Julian Nagelsmann is still only 35.
It’s a testament to his talent that he is more established than someone of his age may otherwise be, and feels like he’s been around forever. He was the Bundesliga’s youngest permanent head coach when he took charge of Hoffenheim aged 28, and was still just 33 when he arrived at Bayern Munich.
Despite his dismissal from the Bavarian giants this week, Nagelsmann remains one of the best young coaches in the world, and won’t be short of options when he chooses to return to the dugout.
So, what now for Julian Nagelsmann?
Where did it go wrong at Bayern?
First, it’s worth considering why he is on the market. The short answer is: results. Bayern are in the unusual position of not being top of the Bundesliga — only by a point, but the burgeoning juggernaut of Borussia Dortmund overtook them last weekend.
The Bayern hierarchy didn’t think this was going to change, and this chart of Bayern’s xG, for and against, over the last few seasons provides some illustration of how things have declined this season. In the most basic terms, their xG against is trending up, and their xG for is trending down.
What tactics does he favour and how flexible is he?
Historically, Nagelsmann has favoured a system rooted in a three-man defence. As you can see from these graphics, he almost exclusively used variants of that at Hoffenheim…
At Leipzig, in 2019, he took a Ralf Rangnick team that was all about direct passing and frantic pressing and turned them into a more conventional elite possession side — pretty impressive considering the players had been recruited to play in that Red Bull style implemented by his predecessor.
In Munich, he inherited a team that was already an elite possession side but changed some things about how they play, such as creating more chances through the middle (a hallmark of Pep Guardiola teams) rather than from the wings (which Bayern generally did more than other top sides).
Just look at how they basically gave up on crossing.
"
It’s a narrative reach to directly attribute the rise and fall of clubs’ fortunes to the head coach, but his first two clubs got better early in his tenure and worse after he left, which might suggest the manager was doing something right. RB Leipzig have never quite recovered to the heights they hit when Nagelsmann transformed their possession game, and Hoffenheim have slid from European spots under Nagelsmann to dangerously close to the Bundesliga relegation zone.
On the other hand, the chart shows that Nagelsmann’s teams tended to simply sustain their early gains rather than continue to improve under his leadership. And at Bayern, unlike Hoffenheim and Leipzig, he leaves behind a team slightly weaker in the model’s estimation than the one he inherited.
Still, if we shrug off Bayern’s so-so current season as the product of losing an all-time great striker, we can spin a pretty rosy story about Nagelsmann’s young career from this chart.
Will he want to go straight back into management?
It’s difficult to say. It’s unlikely that he had his eye on his next gig, and managers of similar stature have shown recently that they’re perfectly happy to be patient: Tuchel left Chelsea in September but has waited for the job he wants, while Mauricio Pochettino was on the sidelines for around 14 months after leaving Tottenham, and it’s coming up on nine months since he left PSG.
Nagelsmann can still afford to be picky, and the good news for him is that there might be a few choice vacancies available either immediately, or in the summer.
It’s amazing to think Julian Nagelsmann is still only 35.
It’s a testament to his talent that he is more established than someone of his age may otherwise be, and feels like he’s been around forever. He was the Bundesliga’s youngest permanent head coach when he took charge of Hoffenheim aged 28, and was still just 33 when he arrived at Bayern Munich.
Despite his dismissal from the Bavarian giants this week, Nagelsmann remains one of the best young coaches in the world, and won’t be short of options when he chooses to return to the dugout.
So, what now for Julian Nagelsmann?
Where did it go wrong at Bayern?
First, it’s worth considering why he is on the market. The short answer is: results. Bayern are in the unusual position of not being top of the Bundesliga — only by a point, but the burgeoning juggernaut of Borussia Dortmund overtook them last weekend.
The Bayern hierarchy didn’t think this was going to change, and this chart of Bayern’s xG, for and against, over the last few seasons provides some illustration of how things have declined this season. In the most basic terms, their xG against is trending up, and their xG for is trending down.
What tactics does he favour and how flexible is he?
Historically, Nagelsmann has favoured a system rooted in a three-man defence. As you can see from these graphics, he almost exclusively used variants of that at Hoffenheim…
At Leipzig, in 2019, he took a Ralf Rangnick team that was all about direct passing and frantic pressing and turned them into a more conventional elite possession side — pretty impressive considering the players had been recruited to play in that Red Bull style implemented by his predecessor.
In Munich, he inherited a team that was already an elite possession side but changed some things about how they play, such as creating more chances through the middle (a hallmark of Pep Guardiola teams) rather than from the wings (which Bayern generally did more than other top sides).
Just look at how they basically gave up on crossing.
"
It’s a narrative reach to directly attribute the rise and fall of clubs’ fortunes to the head coach, but his first two clubs got better early in his tenure and worse after he left, which might suggest the manager was doing something right. RB Leipzig have never quite recovered to the heights they hit when Nagelsmann transformed their possession game, and Hoffenheim have slid from European spots under Nagelsmann to dangerously close to the Bundesliga relegation zone.
On the other hand, the chart shows that Nagelsmann’s teams tended to simply sustain their early gains rather than continue to improve under his leadership. And at Bayern, unlike Hoffenheim and Leipzig, he leaves behind a team slightly weaker in the model’s estimation than the one he inherited.
Still, if we shrug off Bayern’s so-so current season as the product of losing an all-time great striker, we can spin a pretty rosy story about Nagelsmann’s young career from this chart.
Will he want to go straight back into management?
It’s difficult to say. It’s unlikely that he had his eye on his next gig, and managers of similar stature have shown recently that they’re perfectly happy to be patient: Tuchel left Chelsea in September but has waited for the job he wants, while Mauricio Pochettino was on the sidelines for around 14 months after leaving Tottenham, and it’s coming up on nine months since he left PSG.
Nagelsmann can still afford to be picky, and the good news for him is that there might be a few choice vacancies available either immediately, or in the summer.
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Part 2.
So, where might he go next?
Tottenham Hotspur
At the time of writing, Antonio Conte is still Tottenham manager, but that is expected to change fairly soon. Nagelsmann ticks a lot of boxes for Spurs: tactically innovative, young but with a Champions League pedigree, and would perhaps be a middle ground between the ‘win now’ managers like Conte and Jose Mourinho, and a less established but promising name like Ruben Amorim or Roberto De Zerbi.
It’s also worth noting that Spurs have long admired Nagelsmann and have tried to appoint him twice: once after Pochettino’s dismissal in 2019, but he had not long been at Leipzig, and again in 2021 after he had joined Bayern.
On the flip side, Nagelsmann’s reputation for abrasiveness that was unpopular with some of the Bayern players this season may count against him.
Would he want the job? It could suit him: they have some good young talent, and their more established players like Harry Kane or Son Heung-min are perhaps less likely to clash with him than big names at other clubs. They have mostly been less than the sum of their parts under Conte, but Nagelsmann may think he can lift them up again.
Paris Saint-Germain
Instinctively, you might think PSG will steer clear of a coach like Nagelsmann, having already tried and cast aside Pochettino and Tuchel.
Additionally, if Nagelsmann rubbed Bayern’s big names up the wrong way, then one shudders to think what could go down between him and the outsized personalities in the PSG dressing room. All the best trying to turn Neymar, Lionel Messi and Kylian Mbappe into a crack-pressing trio.
But then again PSG have tried basically every other kind of manager, with the Christophe Gaultier experiment seemingly spluttering too. Might they think of Nagelsmann as the coach to helm their reset, building around young talents like Hugo Ekitike and Warren Zaire-Emery?
Real Madrid
Nagelsmann has been on Real Madrid’s radar for some time, and while Carlo Ancelotti’s contract runs until 2024, his future is uncertain.
The arrival of Nagelsmann would be a mini-revolution given that Madrid have gone several years without changing their system, while their transitions in attack tend to be slow. But a shake-up could be just what Real need if they finish the season without a major title.
Even so, Nagelsmann’s bright ideas could work against him. Ancelotti has created a harmonious dressing room in which he gives players ample space and in which he is highly respected as a veteran coach. The German could create divisions between players if he looks to change that.
The similarities between Real and Bayern could be a concern, but he might have learned from the Bavarian experience, and it’s worth remembering what Benjamin Kauffmann, a team-mate in his playing days, said about Nagelsmann: “He was so switched on and focused, he solved problems before they truly arose.”
Sounds like the ideal quality for the manager of a super club.
Chelsea
Before Chelsea fans start getting excited, there is no job available at the moment. Graham Potter was given a five-year contract last September and despite concerns over the team’s form in 2023, the co-owners are not ready to make another change yet.
However, Nagelsmann boasts many of the characteristics Chelsea’s owners admire in a head coach: he likes his teams to entertain, and his record of working with young players could be particularly attractive.
Kalidou Koulibaly and Thiago Silva aside, most of Chelsea’s key outfield players and recent recruits are 24 and younger: Kai Havertz, Enzo Fernandez, Reece James, Wesley Fofana, Noni Madueke, Mykhailo Mudryk, and throw in the expected summer arrival of Christopher Nkunku, who has worked with Nagelsmann before. If Nagelsmann’s strength lies in working with youngsters, Chelsea’s squad fits that bill most neatly.
Additionally, it’s worth noting that Nagelsmann’s closest relationship at Bayern was with Joshua Kimmich, the nucleus around which the protons and electrons buzzed. There aren’t many players around on Kimmich’s level, but Enzo Fernandez is perhaps the most similar.
As the metronome of the team, the pair share the similar role of starting attacks for their side, able to look after possession with near-perfect accuracy while also being a key cog in their team’s attacking machine. Both can progress the ball into dangerous areas and even chip in with the odd goal and assist. The difference is that Kimmich has shown this skill set for many seasons in a Bayern shirt, whereas Fernandez is just starting out. It could be a way for Chelsea to get their best from their most expensive investment, and a kindred spirit to attract Nagelsmann to west London.
RB Leipzig
Would Nagelsmann view it as a retrograde step to return to his former club? Possibly, but they haven’t exactly been flourishing without him: they finished third and second in their two seasons with him in charge, but they’re fifth and way off the pace, and are on their third head coach since his departure, with Jesse Marsch and Domenico Tedesco dispensed with, and Marco Rose in place.
Might the two parties consider what life has been like without each other, and conclude that a reunion is what will make them both happy?
The wildcards
It’s pretty unlikely there is going to be a vacancy at Anfield this summer, but should Jurgen Klopp decide he doesn’t have a rebuild in him then Nagelsmann could fit nicely at Anfield. A fresh voice but not an entirely unfamiliar style, someone who is perhaps a little more tactically flexible than Klopp, a coach who can get the best from the array of fine attacking talent at Anfield?
Atletico Madrid would be interesting if only to see what would happen if they replaced Diego Simeone with someone so contrasting. What about Serie A? The traditional powers are all miles away this season, so Nagelsmann could probably have his pick if he fancied a crack at Juventus, Inter or Milan.
Wherever Nagelsmann ends up, it’s going to be fascinating.
So, where might he go next?
Tottenham Hotspur
At the time of writing, Antonio Conte is still Tottenham manager, but that is expected to change fairly soon. Nagelsmann ticks a lot of boxes for Spurs: tactically innovative, young but with a Champions League pedigree, and would perhaps be a middle ground between the ‘win now’ managers like Conte and Jose Mourinho, and a less established but promising name like Ruben Amorim or Roberto De Zerbi.
It’s also worth noting that Spurs have long admired Nagelsmann and have tried to appoint him twice: once after Pochettino’s dismissal in 2019, but he had not long been at Leipzig, and again in 2021 after he had joined Bayern.
On the flip side, Nagelsmann’s reputation for abrasiveness that was unpopular with some of the Bayern players this season may count against him.
Would he want the job? It could suit him: they have some good young talent, and their more established players like Harry Kane or Son Heung-min are perhaps less likely to clash with him than big names at other clubs. They have mostly been less than the sum of their parts under Conte, but Nagelsmann may think he can lift them up again.
Paris Saint-Germain
Instinctively, you might think PSG will steer clear of a coach like Nagelsmann, having already tried and cast aside Pochettino and Tuchel.
Additionally, if Nagelsmann rubbed Bayern’s big names up the wrong way, then one shudders to think what could go down between him and the outsized personalities in the PSG dressing room. All the best trying to turn Neymar, Lionel Messi and Kylian Mbappe into a crack-pressing trio.
But then again PSG have tried basically every other kind of manager, with the Christophe Gaultier experiment seemingly spluttering too. Might they think of Nagelsmann as the coach to helm their reset, building around young talents like Hugo Ekitike and Warren Zaire-Emery?
Real Madrid
Nagelsmann has been on Real Madrid’s radar for some time, and while Carlo Ancelotti’s contract runs until 2024, his future is uncertain.
The arrival of Nagelsmann would be a mini-revolution given that Madrid have gone several years without changing their system, while their transitions in attack tend to be slow. But a shake-up could be just what Real need if they finish the season without a major title.
Even so, Nagelsmann’s bright ideas could work against him. Ancelotti has created a harmonious dressing room in which he gives players ample space and in which he is highly respected as a veteran coach. The German could create divisions between players if he looks to change that.
The similarities between Real and Bayern could be a concern, but he might have learned from the Bavarian experience, and it’s worth remembering what Benjamin Kauffmann, a team-mate in his playing days, said about Nagelsmann: “He was so switched on and focused, he solved problems before they truly arose.”
Sounds like the ideal quality for the manager of a super club.
Chelsea
Before Chelsea fans start getting excited, there is no job available at the moment. Graham Potter was given a five-year contract last September and despite concerns over the team’s form in 2023, the co-owners are not ready to make another change yet.
However, Nagelsmann boasts many of the characteristics Chelsea’s owners admire in a head coach: he likes his teams to entertain, and his record of working with young players could be particularly attractive.
Kalidou Koulibaly and Thiago Silva aside, most of Chelsea’s key outfield players and recent recruits are 24 and younger: Kai Havertz, Enzo Fernandez, Reece James, Wesley Fofana, Noni Madueke, Mykhailo Mudryk, and throw in the expected summer arrival of Christopher Nkunku, who has worked with Nagelsmann before. If Nagelsmann’s strength lies in working with youngsters, Chelsea’s squad fits that bill most neatly.
Additionally, it’s worth noting that Nagelsmann’s closest relationship at Bayern was with Joshua Kimmich, the nucleus around which the protons and electrons buzzed. There aren’t many players around on Kimmich’s level, but Enzo Fernandez is perhaps the most similar.
As the metronome of the team, the pair share the similar role of starting attacks for their side, able to look after possession with near-perfect accuracy while also being a key cog in their team’s attacking machine. Both can progress the ball into dangerous areas and even chip in with the odd goal and assist. The difference is that Kimmich has shown this skill set for many seasons in a Bayern shirt, whereas Fernandez is just starting out. It could be a way for Chelsea to get their best from their most expensive investment, and a kindred spirit to attract Nagelsmann to west London.
RB Leipzig
Would Nagelsmann view it as a retrograde step to return to his former club? Possibly, but they haven’t exactly been flourishing without him: they finished third and second in their two seasons with him in charge, but they’re fifth and way off the pace, and are on their third head coach since his departure, with Jesse Marsch and Domenico Tedesco dispensed with, and Marco Rose in place.
Might the two parties consider what life has been like without each other, and conclude that a reunion is what will make them both happy?
The wildcards
It’s pretty unlikely there is going to be a vacancy at Anfield this summer, but should Jurgen Klopp decide he doesn’t have a rebuild in him then Nagelsmann could fit nicely at Anfield. A fresh voice but not an entirely unfamiliar style, someone who is perhaps a little more tactically flexible than Klopp, a coach who can get the best from the array of fine attacking talent at Anfield?
Atletico Madrid would be interesting if only to see what would happen if they replaced Diego Simeone with someone so contrasting. What about Serie A? The traditional powers are all miles away this season, so Nagelsmann could probably have his pick if he fancied a crack at Juventus, Inter or Milan.
Wherever Nagelsmann ends up, it’s going to be fascinating.
Thanks for sharing Athletic article on Nagelsman. I do think he is a candidate in Levy's mind and i would be happy enough with him as our manager as i think he would be a good fit for the club/players etc. I will despair if he ends up at PSG/Chelsea, but then remind myself he will get a nice retirement payment when he is inevitably sacked (appreciate the same can be said for many of our managers!)
I think its between Nagelsmann and Poch
I don't see Levy going for Gallardo given he's not coached in Europe
I don't see Enrique joining. I think he'll be holding off for a bigger roles
I also don't see Levy going for the likes of de Zerbi, Slot, Kompany, Carrick as they're either inexperienced or inexperienced in the PL
Whereas for Poch and Nagelmann:
- both managed elite teams (even if only for a couple seasons)
- both managed in a major European league
- credible that both could stay for a few years
- both would fit the narrative of playing in a way which is consistent with the heritage of the club
- both could said to be consistent wit the image of the club which Levy likes in terms of modern, forward thinking etc
I don't see Levy going for Gallardo given he's not coached in Europe
I don't see Enrique joining. I think he'll be holding off for a bigger roles
I also don't see Levy going for the likes of de Zerbi, Slot, Kompany, Carrick as they're either inexperienced or inexperienced in the PL
Whereas for Poch and Nagelmann:
- both managed elite teams (even if only for a couple seasons)
- both managed in a major European league
- credible that both could stay for a few years
- both would fit the narrative of playing in a way which is consistent with the heritage of the club
- both could said to be consistent wit the image of the club which Levy likes in terms of modern, forward thinking etc
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
I think De Zerbi would be firmly in the frame if not for his likely hefty buy out to release him from his contract.
I don’t think Poch is happening because Carlo is going to Brazil and for some reason Perez seems to really want Poch to replace him.
So looks like all roads lead to Nagelsmann unless someone else pips us. And that imo is entirely possible the way the american cowboy operates at chelsea for example.
Could see them doing a Bayern and sacking Potter in the next few days and hiring Nagelsmann.
superspurs
Vedran Corluka
Here you go:
Bayern Munich, Julian Nagelsmann and a very surprising sacking
Julian Nagelsmann learned of his imminent dismissal as Bayern Munich manager via social media on Thursday night, as did his players.
The timing of the move, just over a week before a crucial phase in the season with games against league leaders Borussia Dortmund, Freiburg (DFB Pokal) and Pep Guardiola’s Emirates Marketing Projectin the Champions League, caught most of the club by surprise. It wasn’t planned that way by those in charge, either. For one last time in Nagelsmann’s short reign, things had quickly taken a turn for the worse and delivered unexpected consequences.
Bayern had held talks with Thomas Tuchel over the 49-year-old taking over at the start of next season, but the German champions were forced into pulling the trigger earlier by unforeseen events over the weekend.
To the shock of executive chairman Oliver Kahn and sporting director Hasan Salihamidzic, Bayern were an abject mess in the 2-1 defeat at Bayer Leverkusen, a collection of individuals with no discernible common purpose on the pitch. The worst showing in a season that had already seen its fair share of poor results — Bayern haven’t been this bad for 11 years in the league — stoked fears the entire campaign might disintegrate next month.
Three defeats in those games mentioned above would have left Bayern without much chance of silverware, a worse outcome than in Nagelsmann’s debut season, when they were knocked out by Villarreal in the Champions League quarter-finals, crashed to a 5-0 defeat at Borussia Monchengladbach in the cup and only won the by-now-regulation Bundesliga title in underwhelming fashion. Bayern couldn’t contemplate a similar or even more disappointing outcome.
Still, not everybody was convinced the situation was unsalvageable, at least in the short term. Bayern’s excellent results in the Champions League, where they have eight wins from eight games, had stoked optimism that the team and Nagelsmann, whatever their problems, could raise their game when it really mattered.
Until a few days ago, the club’s preference was to leave Nagelsmann in situ and then make a clean break in the summer. But Tuchel, who has been living in Munich for a few weeks and could regularly be seen walking his dog in the leafy Bogenhausen quarter, wasn’t prepared to wait. Bayern were told in no uncertain terms they had to move now or risk him signing for other suitors.
Thomas Tuchel wanted the Bayern Munich job straight away, which forced the clubs hand.
History taught them to take that threat seriously. In spring of 2018, they had approached Tuchel with a view of installing him as Jupp Heynckes’ successor. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, then the club’s CEO, was the former Mainz coach’s champion on the board, but president Uli Hoeness was unconvinced: he feared Tuchel’s stubborn, irascible style wouldn’t be a good fit for the “big family” ethos at Bayern. The board pleaded for more time, but Tuchel decamped to Paris Saint-Germain rather than wait for them to make up their minds.
The fear of missing out on the proven winner and most successful German coach after Jurgen Klopp in recent years for a second time, five years later, had Bayern bring his appointment forward. Nagelsmann was supposed to learn of his fate in a face-to-face meeting on Friday, but the story leaked via a third party before he was contacted.
There is plenty of embarrassment and regret in Munich over the manner of the 35-year-old’s departure, but not about the decision itself. Nagelsmann, they had hoped, would learn from his mistakes of the second half of last season, when a flurry of tactical and personnel changes saw Bayern lose their rhythm to the point of coming to a “standstill”, as Leroy Sane told The Athleticlast summer.
Players had complained the coach was overcomplicating things in training, making too many changes during games and not communicating enough with them. Nagelsmann vowed to listen more and adopt a steadier approach to selection but had to abandon his 4-2-2-2 formation after a run of poor games in September.
Bayer Leverkusen’s win over Bayern Munich last weekend was the final straw for the club’s board (Photo: Dean Mouhtaropoulos/Getty Images)
He recently re-introduced a 4-2-3-1/3-2-4-1 hybrid system that was sometimes the best of both worlds but more often a confusing compromise. In addition, there was a latent tension between his preferred possession game and a more direct style favoured by some influential members of the dressing room. Like his idol Pep Guardiola, he asked a tremendous amount of his team; unlike the Catalan, he didn’t manage to instil total confidence in his methods.
Bayern’s build-up play through the centre-backs was a particular problem against high-pressing sides in recent weeks, but Nagelsmann resisted attempts by seasoned players to modify the setup. New signing Cancelo not realising he was supposed to leave his wing-back position to play as a second No 10 just 10 minutes into the Leverkusen defeat summed up the constant, low-level misalignment between Bayern’s game and the manager’s ideas.
While some players who had experienced Pep’s exacting standards and his constant adjustment to the opposition were at ease with Nagelsmann’s attempts at micro-management, a sizeable contingent found him overbearing. “He puts the system over the needs of the players,” was an oft-repeated complaint in club HQ corridors.
One example was the 3-1 loss at Gladbach when Dayot Upamecano was sent off after less than 10 minutes. The team were surprised to hear Nagelsmann castigating them for not pressing harder at half-time even though they were a man down.
Some pros also found it hard to be constantly in and out of the team, especially without the manager taking the time to explain his decisions in great detail. He struck up a close relationship with Joshua Kimmich but failed to bring many other seasoned pros on board.
The Manuel Neuer affair — the axing of goalkeeper coach Toni Tapalovic in the absence of the injured World Cup winner — won him few friends in the squad, as did his decision to substitute talisman Thomas Muller a few minutes into the defeat at Gladbach. Nagelsmann later vowed not to repeat that mistake but subbed Muller again at half-time in Leverkusen. His predecessor Niko Kovac had also made the mistake of marginalising Muller.
Neuer: 'I felt like my heart was being ripped out. It was the most brutal thing in my career'
The timing of the move, just over a week before a crucial phase in the season with games against league leaders Borussia Dortmund, Freiburg (DFB Pokal) and Pep Guardiola’s Emirates Marketing Projectin the Champions League, caught most of the club by surprise. It wasn’t planned that way by those in charge, either. For one last time in Nagelsmann’s short reign, things had quickly taken a turn for the worse and delivered unexpected consequences.
Bayern had held talks with Thomas Tuchel over the 49-year-old taking over at the start of next season, but the German champions were forced into pulling the trigger earlier by unforeseen events over the weekend.
To the shock of executive chairman Oliver Kahn and sporting director Hasan Salihamidzic, Bayern were an abject mess in the 2-1 defeat at Bayer Leverkusen, a collection of individuals with no discernible common purpose on the pitch. The worst showing in a season that had already seen its fair share of poor results — Bayern haven’t been this bad for 11 years in the league — stoked fears the entire campaign might disintegrate next month.
Three defeats in those games mentioned above would have left Bayern without much chance of silverware, a worse outcome than in Nagelsmann’s debut season, when they were knocked out by Villarreal in the Champions League quarter-finals, crashed to a 5-0 defeat at Borussia Monchengladbach in the cup and only won the by-now-regulation Bundesliga title in underwhelming fashion. Bayern couldn’t contemplate a similar or even more disappointing outcome.
Still, not everybody was convinced the situation was unsalvageable, at least in the short term. Bayern’s excellent results in the Champions League, where they have eight wins from eight games, had stoked optimism that the team and Nagelsmann, whatever their problems, could raise their game when it really mattered.
Until a few days ago, the club’s preference was to leave Nagelsmann in situ and then make a clean break in the summer. But Tuchel, who has been living in Munich for a few weeks and could regularly be seen walking his dog in the leafy Bogenhausen quarter, wasn’t prepared to wait. Bayern were told in no uncertain terms they had to move now or risk him signing for other suitors.
Thomas Tuchel wanted the Bayern Munich job straight away, which forced the clubs hand.
History taught them to take that threat seriously. In spring of 2018, they had approached Tuchel with a view of installing him as Jupp Heynckes’ successor. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, then the club’s CEO, was the former Mainz coach’s champion on the board, but president Uli Hoeness was unconvinced: he feared Tuchel’s stubborn, irascible style wouldn’t be a good fit for the “big family” ethos at Bayern. The board pleaded for more time, but Tuchel decamped to Paris Saint-Germain rather than wait for them to make up their minds.
The fear of missing out on the proven winner and most successful German coach after Jurgen Klopp in recent years for a second time, five years later, had Bayern bring his appointment forward. Nagelsmann was supposed to learn of his fate in a face-to-face meeting on Friday, but the story leaked via a third party before he was contacted.
There is plenty of embarrassment and regret in Munich over the manner of the 35-year-old’s departure, but not about the decision itself. Nagelsmann, they had hoped, would learn from his mistakes of the second half of last season, when a flurry of tactical and personnel changes saw Bayern lose their rhythm to the point of coming to a “standstill”, as Leroy Sane told The Athleticlast summer.
Players had complained the coach was overcomplicating things in training, making too many changes during games and not communicating enough with them. Nagelsmann vowed to listen more and adopt a steadier approach to selection but had to abandon his 4-2-2-2 formation after a run of poor games in September.
Bayer Leverkusen’s win over Bayern Munich last weekend was the final straw for the club’s board (Photo: Dean Mouhtaropoulos/Getty Images)
He recently re-introduced a 4-2-3-1/3-2-4-1 hybrid system that was sometimes the best of both worlds but more often a confusing compromise. In addition, there was a latent tension between his preferred possession game and a more direct style favoured by some influential members of the dressing room. Like his idol Pep Guardiola, he asked a tremendous amount of his team; unlike the Catalan, he didn’t manage to instil total confidence in his methods.
Bayern’s build-up play through the centre-backs was a particular problem against high-pressing sides in recent weeks, but Nagelsmann resisted attempts by seasoned players to modify the setup. New signing Cancelo not realising he was supposed to leave his wing-back position to play as a second No 10 just 10 minutes into the Leverkusen defeat summed up the constant, low-level misalignment between Bayern’s game and the manager’s ideas.
While some players who had experienced Pep’s exacting standards and his constant adjustment to the opposition were at ease with Nagelsmann’s attempts at micro-management, a sizeable contingent found him overbearing. “He puts the system over the needs of the players,” was an oft-repeated complaint in club HQ corridors.
One example was the 3-1 loss at Gladbach when Dayot Upamecano was sent off after less than 10 minutes. The team were surprised to hear Nagelsmann castigating them for not pressing harder at half-time even though they were a man down.
Some pros also found it hard to be constantly in and out of the team, especially without the manager taking the time to explain his decisions in great detail. He struck up a close relationship with Joshua Kimmich but failed to bring many other seasoned pros on board.
The Manuel Neuer affair — the axing of goalkeeper coach Toni Tapalovic in the absence of the injured World Cup winner — won him few friends in the squad, as did his decision to substitute talisman Thomas Muller a few minutes into the defeat at Gladbach. Nagelsmann later vowed not to repeat that mistake but subbed Muller again at half-time in Leverkusen. His predecessor Niko Kovac had also made the mistake of marginalising Muller.
Neuer: 'I felt like my heart was being ripped out. It was the most brutal thing in my career'
superspurs
Vedran Corluka
Bayern Munich, Julian Nagelsmann and a very surprising sacking
At Hoffenheim and Leipzig, Nagelsmann made his name by always picking different line-ups tailored to the specific challenges of each game. But the complicated dynamics in Bayern’s dressing room demanded a less interventionist approach. Too many players felt undermined by the never-ending changes.
Looking back at Nagelsmann’s 22 months in charge, it’s easy to find some great games. But tellingly, no single player was able to play at their very best throughout that time. Neither were the team.
Bayern’s individual quality was such that they could still win most games, especially in the Champions League, where a combination of good fortune and extra effort brought top results. In more mundane engagements, however, Bayern lost control and shape with worrying regularity.
It didn’t help team morale that Salihamidzic and Kahn, determined to back Nagelsmann to the hilt, blamed the squad’s poor mentality after bad results instead of analysing the underlying reasons for Bayern’s diminished dominance. “I’ve rarely experienced such little drive, mentality, aggression and power,” Salihamidzic said after the Leverkusen defeat. “That’s not what Bayern Munich is all about.”
Some important members of the club’s hierarchy, too, were a little put out that Kahn and Salihamidzic continued to sing the praises of Nagelsmann for tactical reasons in meetings a few weeks ago, at a time when the duo had all but concluded a change at the helm was in order. Only on Monday had chairman Herbert Hainer told Kicker magazine that they were “planning with (Nagelsmann) for the long term”.
Nagelsmann didn’t help his cause by occasionally showing his inexperience. Eyebrows were raised when he arrived to training on a skateboard and drove a motorcycle in town, part of a pattern of behaviour more suited to an older brother than the father figure craved by the dressing room.
His relationship with Lena Wurzenberger, a former Bayern reporter for Bild, Germany’s biggest-selling tabloid newspaper, also did little to improve trust between him and his team.
Many players didn’t care about those distractions but others had a tough time relating to him. Highly engaging on tactics, he was often too outspoken in press conferences, inadvertently revealing private conversations in the process. Former Juventus defender Matthijs de Ligt had told him “today’s training session was the hardest in the last four years”, Nagelsmann said proudly in the summer, causing unwanted headlines in Italy for the Dutchman.
It was equally clumsy and unnecessary to talk at length about Serge Gnabry’s trip to Paris Fashion Week, putting explicit pressure on the Germany international to make up for his misstep in the game against Eintracht Frankfurt. The 27-year-old was poor in the second half in the 1-1 draw in January, a result that ushered in another mini-crisis. Bundesliga coaches are better served playing the “good cop” role, as other club leaders are prepared to utter public criticism. Nagelsmann didn’t so much lose the dressing room as never really connect with it in the first place.
Julian Nagelsmann’s relationship with former tabloid reporter Lena Wurzenberger caused some unease in Bayern’s squad (Photo: Alexander Hassenstein/Getty Images for Paulaner)
To be sure, all these misgivings would have dispersed had Bayern found consistency or a sense of progress, but neither have been forthcoming since the winter break. Instead, the team seemed to lurch from one extreme to another, not a conducive environment to foster young talent such as Paul Wanner (17) or former Ajax midfielder Ryan Gravenberch (20), who has been all but frozen out, much to the astonishment of many of his team-mates.
Nagelsmann was supposed to develop youngsters in Munich, as he had done to great effect before, but could not square their demands with that of a very deep squad full of personalities. Bayern are well aware that some of those challenges are structural and will be faced by Tuchel, too.
Nagelsmann will no doubt be a success again elsewhere (Photo: Alex Gottschalk/DeFodi Images via Getty Images)
A Bavarian and childhood Bayern fan, Nagelsmann seemed like the perfect fit. Perhaps he still will be in the future. There is no ill feeling towards him at the club. While the board would have liked him to listen more to their advice, they have worked with enough top coaches to accept their idiosyncrasies. He was generally well-liked and appreciated as one of Germany’s biggest coaching prospects.
But the time wasn’t quite right yet for him. If it’s true that teams eventually always resemble their managers, maybe Bayern were never truly at their best for a sustained period under him because he hasn’t yet figured out how to maximise his own considerable talents either.
Chances are his next club will be the beneficiaries of that maturing process. Bayern, though, can never wait. The only long-term strategy Germany’s most insatiable club have ever signed up to is their unequivocal demand for short-term success.
Tuchel will know the drill.
Looking back at Nagelsmann’s 22 months in charge, it’s easy to find some great games. But tellingly, no single player was able to play at their very best throughout that time. Neither were the team.
Bayern’s individual quality was such that they could still win most games, especially in the Champions League, where a combination of good fortune and extra effort brought top results. In more mundane engagements, however, Bayern lost control and shape with worrying regularity.
It didn’t help team morale that Salihamidzic and Kahn, determined to back Nagelsmann to the hilt, blamed the squad’s poor mentality after bad results instead of analysing the underlying reasons for Bayern’s diminished dominance. “I’ve rarely experienced such little drive, mentality, aggression and power,” Salihamidzic said after the Leverkusen defeat. “That’s not what Bayern Munich is all about.”
Some important members of the club’s hierarchy, too, were a little put out that Kahn and Salihamidzic continued to sing the praises of Nagelsmann for tactical reasons in meetings a few weeks ago, at a time when the duo had all but concluded a change at the helm was in order. Only on Monday had chairman Herbert Hainer told Kicker magazine that they were “planning with (Nagelsmann) for the long term”.
Nagelsmann didn’t help his cause by occasionally showing his inexperience. Eyebrows were raised when he arrived to training on a skateboard and drove a motorcycle in town, part of a pattern of behaviour more suited to an older brother than the father figure craved by the dressing room.
His relationship with Lena Wurzenberger, a former Bayern reporter for Bild, Germany’s biggest-selling tabloid newspaper, also did little to improve trust between him and his team.
Many players didn’t care about those distractions but others had a tough time relating to him. Highly engaging on tactics, he was often too outspoken in press conferences, inadvertently revealing private conversations in the process. Former Juventus defender Matthijs de Ligt had told him “today’s training session was the hardest in the last four years”, Nagelsmann said proudly in the summer, causing unwanted headlines in Italy for the Dutchman.
It was equally clumsy and unnecessary to talk at length about Serge Gnabry’s trip to Paris Fashion Week, putting explicit pressure on the Germany international to make up for his misstep in the game against Eintracht Frankfurt. The 27-year-old was poor in the second half in the 1-1 draw in January, a result that ushered in another mini-crisis. Bundesliga coaches are better served playing the “good cop” role, as other club leaders are prepared to utter public criticism. Nagelsmann didn’t so much lose the dressing room as never really connect with it in the first place.
Julian Nagelsmann’s relationship with former tabloid reporter Lena Wurzenberger caused some unease in Bayern’s squad (Photo: Alexander Hassenstein/Getty Images for Paulaner)
To be sure, all these misgivings would have dispersed had Bayern found consistency or a sense of progress, but neither have been forthcoming since the winter break. Instead, the team seemed to lurch from one extreme to another, not a conducive environment to foster young talent such as Paul Wanner (17) or former Ajax midfielder Ryan Gravenberch (20), who has been all but frozen out, much to the astonishment of many of his team-mates.
Nagelsmann was supposed to develop youngsters in Munich, as he had done to great effect before, but could not square their demands with that of a very deep squad full of personalities. Bayern are well aware that some of those challenges are structural and will be faced by Tuchel, too.
Nagelsmann will no doubt be a success again elsewhere (Photo: Alex Gottschalk/DeFodi Images via Getty Images)
A Bavarian and childhood Bayern fan, Nagelsmann seemed like the perfect fit. Perhaps he still will be in the future. There is no ill feeling towards him at the club. While the board would have liked him to listen more to their advice, they have worked with enough top coaches to accept their idiosyncrasies. He was generally well-liked and appreciated as one of Germany’s biggest coaching prospects.
But the time wasn’t quite right yet for him. If it’s true that teams eventually always resemble their managers, maybe Bayern were never truly at their best for a sustained period under him because he hasn’t yet figured out how to maximise his own considerable talents either.
Chances are his next club will be the beneficiaries of that maturing process. Bayern, though, can never wait. The only long-term strategy Germany’s most insatiable club have ever signed up to is their unequivocal demand for short-term success.
Tuchel will know the drill.
Read de zerbis release is £11m.
Mr Gogolak
Steven Caulker
That's precisely my point: no, he won't. Gross was a good manager. If you look at his record when he was at his peak, his time at Spurs was an anomaly. Of course, he made a few mistakes (the evening at the circus, his first press conference...) but the bottom line is that the players simply refused to play for him. More recently, we heard similar noises when Espirito Santo was here, with Winks claiming the training sessions were 'boring'. If you bring a guy with zero reputation in a club full of international players, he won't command anything at all.
And it's pure speculation on my part but I wouldn't be surprised if the big-name appointments were made to placate Kane, who was one of the only players at the club to thank Mourinho at the end of his tenure. At this point, putting a Polish second division manager in the hotseat (to use your example) would be the worst move imaginable, in my opinion.
Baleforce
Mark Falco
That shows the attitude problem of the players at the time.
And I’d be worried the same exists now.
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alekaras
The ITK of IDK
How do you know he won't do a good job? Because he was an average player? Or does he have a managerial resume that you're going by? I'm not saying he's going to pull up trees, but to dismiss him like that based on 6 games 2 years ago is a bit knee jerk
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Les Medley
Because most of the mugs who allegedly watch football think a great player makes a great manager whereas experience show most great managers were average players. Plus anyone one from overseas must be better than British, Irish or black person.
Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
It’s just human nature. I’ve seen it even in the financial services industry. If a human being feels that the person managing them isn’t good enough then their performance drops.
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Gazza Dazzla
Jimmy McCormick
Give Bedford back his keyboard mate!
Baleforce
Mark Falco
yeah, its something that needs to be broken out of people, the armed forces spend a lot of time on getting attitudes to change of command correct, professional sport should be the same
Professional athletes or employees are not the same as those who sign up, you don't get the option of breaking anything out of them.
To the point of thread, will be hard to judge Nagelesmann because Bayern are in full PR mode to discredit him right now, so they can justify the sacking
Baleforce
Mark Falco
it's Bayern, its March, they've not won the league yet, he's been an absolute disaster, sacking is more than justified