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Moussa Dembele

DubaiSpur said:
Right, but I will point out that if we buy someone like Dembele and loan him back, but then get Kane crocked or simply fall away in terms of goalscoring threat...we'll likely finish outside the top four, which would be highly, highly disappointing in a very fluid and unpredictable season.

An opportunity missed here will lead to much, much less forgiveness for Poch and the team come the start of next season - essentially, 'you threw away the last season because you wanted this Dembele instead of a readymade striker in January: now you have him, you better not f*ck it up again'. This will hold doubly true, of course, if our troubles come in packs, as is usually the case: if we miss out on the top four and Arse win the title, for example. A similar set of horrible circumstances saw Redknapp leave with a lot of the fans (me included) furious at him and happy to see him go, even as the more prescient supporters at the time were busy warning everyone that we wouldn't have it as good for a long time to come.

And this isn't even a wound inflicted by Levy (as I tend to believe the Saha-Nelsen double whammy was in Redknapp's case) - the man seems happy to back Poch as much as he can these days. No, this will be a self-inflicted wound if the worst happens after the window closes.And, as nice as it might be to imagine otherwise, if it makes us fall short this season, it will suddenly put a lot more pressure on Poch heading into his third season, the last Tottenham Hotspur Football Club will ever spend at the 'old' White Hart Lane (which carries with it a certain need to finish with a flourish).

If Poch is happy to make that gamble, then fair enough, let's see where it goes. Personally, my expectations will be higher next season regardless of what happens this time (in keeping with my desire to see continuous progress), but making the CL or winning something will undoubtedly help assuage any future failures/set-backs that may occur, and we have a very, very good chance of doing one of those things this season that I don't particularly think Poch should thow away for the sake of long-term planning.
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That's the knee-jerk reaction that you are describing. Opportunities may present themselves that would make it tempting to bring in someone to take advantage of them, but what if the cost of that is ruining the harmony of the squad? Yes, we get CL (which I would love, don't get me wrong), but in the process veer off course in terms of our long-term plan. Then next year we're back to 5th through 7th again.

This is the problem with most fans: no patience. We have a good thing going and it's still early stages, so it's only going to get better if we stay the course. And better means sustained top-4 and even a title challenge. So why risk it?

As for less forgiveness for Poch next season, I couldn't care less what the fans think. As long as I am seeing continuous improvement and Levy does too, there'll be plenty of forgiveness to go around. Again, let's not forget that this is a long-term project. One which started bearing fruits earlier than anyone expected. Just because it did, doesn't mean we change course and start tinkering with the harmony of the squad. Patience, my dear boy, patience!
 
alekaras said:
That's the knee-jerk reaction that you are describing. Opportunities may present themselves that would make it tempting to bring in someone to take advantage of them, but what if the cost of that is ruining the harmony of the squad? Yes, we get CL (which I would love, don't get me wrong), but in the process veer off course in terms of our long-term plan. Then next year we're back to 5th through 7th again.

This is the problem with most fans: no patience. We have a good thing going and it's still early stages, so it's only going to get better if we stay the course. And better means sustained top-4 and even a title challenge. So why risk it?

As for less forgiveness for Poch next season, I couldn't care less what the fans think. As long as I am seeing continuous improvement and Levy does too, there'll be plenty of forgiveness to go around. Again, let's not forget that this is a long-term project. One which started bearing fruits earlier than anyone expected. Just because it did, doesn't mean we change course and start tinkering with the harmony of the squad. Patience, my dear boy, patience!
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Top 4 means gonads.

Focus this team on winning the double in 2018.
 
alekaras said:
That's the knee-jerk reaction that you are describing. Opportunities may present themselves that would make it tempting to bring in someone to take advantage of them, but what if the cost of that is ruining the harmony of the squad? Yes, we get CL (which I would love, don't get me wrong), but in the process veer off course in terms of our long-term plan. Then next year we're back to 5th through 7th again.

This is the problem with most fans: no patience. We have a good thing going and it's still early stages, so it's only going to get better if we stay the course. And better means sustained top-4 and even a title challenge. So why risk it?

As for less forgiveness for Poch next season, I couldn't care less what the fans think. As long as I am seeing continuous improvement and Levy does too, there'll be plenty of forgiveness to go around. Again, let's not forget that this is a long-term project. One which started bearing fruits earlier than anyone expected. Just because it did, doesn't mean we change course and start tinkering with the harmony of the squad. Patience, my dear boy, patience!
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It's hardly a kneejerk is it if you consider the amount of times we fell just short of the CL spots.

I think the trust of Dubai's post is that the opportunity is here and now. We do not have to wait for another to present itself. Successful businesses (and football teams) recognise when their competitors are weak and exploit the situation to it's full. That scenario is happening in the PL this year IMO. I think you could argue that nearly all of the Sky cartel teams are a little below par this season (maybe Arsenal excluded) so is this not the perfect time to try and steal a march on those other teams? I think it is.

You paint a scenario where if we sign the wrong player everything Poch has been working towards will be undone. It's not realistic to think that one player could ruin us so easily. If you remember the ruthless cull that has just happened at the club then it's clear that Poch will not sit idly by and let any player affect things to the level you describe. In fact if you buy the right player maybe you accelerate the process to where we become consistent CL participants or at least mitigate the risk of our season being derailed by an injury to Kane.

I think we need backup for Kane now and if we choose carefully I don't really see the doomsday scenario you describe happening at all.
(edit : doomsday may be a little strong but you know what I mean)
 
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alekaras said:
That's the knee-jerk reaction that you are describing. Opportunities may present themselves that would make it tempting to bring in someone to take advantage of them, but what if the cost of that is ruining the harmony of the squad? Yes, we get CL (which I would love, don't get me wrong), but in the process veer off course in terms of our long-term plan. Then next year we're back to 5th through 7th again.

This is the problem with most fans: no patience. We have a good thing going and it's still early stages, so it's only going to get better if we stay the course. And better means sustained top-4 and even a title challenge. So why risk it?

As for less forgiveness for Poch next season, I couldn't care less what the fans think. As long as I am seeing continuous improvement and Levy does too, there'll be plenty of forgiveness to go around. Again, let's not forget that this is a long-term project. One which started bearing fruits earlier than anyone expected. Just because it did, doesn't mean we change course and start tinkering with the harmony of the squad. Patience, my dear boy, patience!
Click to expand...

The league being this open again is highly unlikely, which would make 'sustained' top four equally impossible until the stadium arrives, just by dint of the quality difference between a team which buys a nineteen year old like Dembele to fill a hole in the squad (and is willing to loan him out for six months and struggle on with just one striker) and a team which goes out and insta-buys Aguero, Sanchez or Lukaku because they can. And I will point out that we are still far too brittle and prone to draws/ avoidable losses: essentially, thirty-nine points after twenty-two games is still on course for about seventy points come the end of the season -good, but we've been here before.

And personally, I subscribe to the 'bird in the hand over two in the bush' philosophy here: I'd take CL or trophy this season over preserving this 'squad harmony' that would be so devastated by signing a readymade striker (and there is an equal argument to be made for the idea that having a squad so fragile in terms of chemistry might not be the best survival tactic either). There is no guarantee that we'd be competing long-term until the stadium arrives, so why not take what we can get this season and thus build a buffer against future disappointments?

Either way, mind, my expectations for Poch will increase next season: breaching the seventy-point mark is likely to be it, given that we got sixty-plus last time and are likely to get the same this season if we suffer a wobble. But if Poch fails to make those expectations, having a CL campaign or trophy to point to would do wonders when it comes to giving him an easy time for failing to deliver.

Also, thank you for using 'I couldn't care less': people unthinkingly saying 'I could care less' is one of the banes of modern existence in North America, I think. :p
 
Rorschach said:
It's hardly a kneejerk is it if you consider the amount of times we fell just short of the CL spots.

I think the trust of Dubai's post is that the opportunity is here and now. We do not have to wait for another to present itself. Successful businesses (and football teams) recognise when their competitors are weak and exploit the situation to it's full. That scenario is happening in the PL this year IMO. I think you could argue that nearly all of the Sky cartel teams are a little below par this season (maybe Arsenal excluded) so is this not the perfect time to try and steal a march on those other teams? I think it is.

You paint a scenario where if we sign the wrong player everything Poch has been working towards will be undone. It's not realistic to think that one player could ruin us so easily. If you remember the ruthless cull that has just happened at the club then it's clear that Poch will not sit idly by and let any player affect things to the level you describe. In fact if you buy the right player maybe you accelerate the process to where we become consistent CL participants or at least mitigate the risk of our season being derailed by an injury to Kane.

I think we need backup for Kane now and if we choose carefully I don't really see the doomsday scenario you describe happening at all.
(edit : doomsday may be a little strong but you know what I mean)
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We don't just fall short of CL spots. We fall just ahead of our natural position of 6th, usually because of a crisis at Liverpool

The quality of the EPL has been declining rapidly for about 5 years (see the big fall in the co-efficients from 1st to soon 4th). Even if we stand still we'll keep slowly rising up.
 
Gutter Boy said:
We didn't make any money from CL in 2010/11. It all went in salary bonuses.
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Even if that was true, which I doubt it is, this is 2015/16 not 2010/11 and contracts change as has the TV revenue/prize money for being in the CL.

That's before we even get on to sponsorship money and the like which will all increase with the extra exposure that CL football would bring.
 
billyiddo said:
Even if that was true, which I doubt it is, this is 2015/16 not 2010/11 and contracts change as has the TV revenue/prize money for being in the CL.

That's before we even get on to sponsorship money and the like which will all increase with the extra exposure that CL football would bring.
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It needs to be sustained. One season does nothing - it's not a windfall.

Several years of getting to final 8 of the CL might raise our international profile to Arsenal level (we're already the 13th biggest club in Europe as it is though)
 
Gutter Boy said:
We don't just fall short of CL spots. We fall just ahead of our natural position of 6th, usually because of a crisis at Liverpool

The quality of the EPL has been declining rapidly for about 5 years (see the big fall in the co-efficients from 1st to soon 4th). Even if we stand still we'll keep slowly rising up.
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We do. 5th usually.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Right, but I will point out that if we buy someone like Dembele and loan him back, but then get Kane crocked or simply fall away in terms of goalscoring threat...we'll likely finish outside the top four, which would be highly, highly disappointing in a very fluid and unpredictable season.

An opportunity missed here will lead to much, much less forgiveness for Poch and the team come the start of next season - essentially, 'you threw away the last season because you wanted this Dembele instead of a readymade striker in January: now you have him, you better not f*ck it up again'. This will hold doubly true, of course, if our troubles come in packs, as is usually the case: if we miss out on the top four and Arse win the title, for example. A similar set of horrible circumstances saw Redknapp leave with a lot of the fans (me included) furious at him and happy to see him go, even as the more prescient supporters at the time were busy warning everyone that we wouldn't have it as good for a long time to come.

And this isn't even a wound inflicted by Levy (as I tend to believe the Saha-Nelsen double whammy was in Redknapp's case) - the man seems happy to back Poch as much as he can these days. No, this will be a self-inflicted wound if the worst happens after the window closes.And, as nice as it might be to imagine otherwise, if it makes us fall short this season, it will suddenly put a lot more pressure on Poch heading into his third season, the last Tottenham Hotspur Football Club will ever spend at the 'old' White Hart Lane (which carries with it a certain need to finish with a flourish).

If Poch is happy to make that gamble, then fair enough, let's see where it goes. Personally, my expectations will be higher next season regardless of what happens this time (in keeping with my desire to see continuous progress), but making the CL or winning something will undoubtedly help assuage any future failures/set-backs that may occur, and we have a very, very good chance of doing one of those things this season that I don't particularly think Poch should thow away for the sake of long-term planning.
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The knives are already being sharpened I see for the likes of Pooch and Levy:rolleyes:, no matter what they do the bitchers will start up no matter what, some can just not help it as YOU well know.
 
Gutter Boy said:
We didn't make any money from CL in 2010/11. It all went in salary bonuses.
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Making it that much easier to keep our best players. Salaries and bonuses makes players and agents smile...

Also, we had a significant, thought often overlooked, net transfer spend that season.
 
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