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Moussa Dembele

Oh, yeah, it's not like the Scottish leagues are devoid of talent or talented players, just that scoring 20-odd goals in the SPL or doing well overall doesn't automatically translate to success in other leagues (even leagues less competitive than the PL) - there will likely be a lot of extra scouting done when any team buys a player from the SPL or equivalent leagues, and for good reason.
Absolutely and in fact for a club like Celtic and their dominant position scoring less than 20 goals or so would likely make a bigger statement than scoring a hatful. Anyway lets watch his progress and then swoop when he's five times the price .
 
Absolutely and in fact for a club like Celtic and their dominant position scoring less than 20 goals or so would likely make a bigger statement than scoring a hatful. Anyway lets watch his progress and then swoop when he's five times the price .

5 times zero is still zero, mate. :)
 
Is the club going to be swayed by a half season in Scotland to spend 30m on a player they weren't prepared to spend 6m on in the Summer/last Jan - don't see it myself
 
Not saying he's worth 30m but have you seen him play, he's good in almost every aspect of the game required by a striker.

No I haven't seen him play since he left Fulham tbf but let's not kid ourselves, Scotland is a very low standard of football and players can be made to look better than they are in a weak league (ask Janssen) - not saying he isnt a good player just that from the clubs perspective I'm not sure they'd see a few months of playing well in Scotland enough to up their bid from 6m ish to 30m ish (as per the headline)
 
Yeah - you'd assume we'd've done an awful lot of modelling of both him and Janssen before deciding to pay 3 times more for the latter.

I think it is more like someone got peeved when Fulham wanted him back on loan last season after we had reportedly agreed a deal and agreed personal terms with him apparently. Don't know who. Maybe Levy, maybe Poch, maybe someone else. But whoever it was, I think we made a mistake for our intransigence over that point - especially as we had done it with Alli the previous season. £6m for a young goalscoring striker is a bargain with hardly any downside risk to us - and in a position we dont have sufficient cover.
 
I think it is more like someone got peeved when Fulham wanted him back on loan last season after we had reportedly agreed a deal and agreed personal terms with him apparently. Don't know who. Maybe Levy, maybe Poch, maybe someone else. But whoever it was, I think we made a mistake for our intransigence over that point - especially as we had done it with Alli the previous season. £6m for a young goalscoring striker is a bargain with hardly any downside risk to us - and in a position we dont have sufficient cover.
Unless, the half season that we didn't want to loan him back was supposed to be his bedding in time so that he could be ready to deputize for Kane at the start of this season. Else we would have gone into this season without sufficient back-up for Kane and the club thought it better to find someone who is closer to the finished article over the summer. The fact that Janssen hasn't worked out yet is 20/20 hindsight. Had he been banging in the goals, we would all be singing a different tune and would have quickly forgotten about Dembele (or would say "it would have been nice to have him, too, but we're good and he would be wasted not playing much").

As for the Dele example, at the time we signed him we were a team in transition - a long term project. So not getting him in right away was not as crucial.
 
We were prepared to pay £6m in January but Fulhams terms didn't suit us

We also went in for him in the summer (his words and I quoted the article earlier in this thread) but he sensibly chose the easier route that gives him better exposure and development

Scotland is a dog brick league and lower IMO than the championship. He won't be there beyond one season and will command a big fee now he has a higher profile

Would he have been better than Jansenn - who knows. Would I like us to sign him - yes because he is potentially a great player.

But I still think he will go to PSG and be their Zlatan replacement
 
http://www.90min.com/posts/4376830-...e-for-30m-rated-celtic-striker-moussa-dembele

Ideal cover for Kane in my opinion.

We've got options for the guys behind him like Lamela, Son, Sissoko and George but an upgrade on the poor mans soldado is essential if we're serious about giving this title business a crack.

How long would you give dembele to perform though???

Serious question as lots of us wanted Batshuiyi and he looks poor too given sporadic game time. Hell there are strong rumours of him being shifted already after half a season

Whoever comes in will play second fiddle to Kane unless their truly world class. That takes a hell of an attitude to be that man and it's not something you would asosociate with most strikers as their generally quite selfish by nature
 
Yeah - you'd assume we'd've done an awful lot of modelling of both him and Janssen before deciding to pay 3 times more for the latter.
At Tottenham, it was Bayer Leverkusen who were seen as a side adopting a similar style of play. Roger Schmidt's commitment to a pressing game is well documented and that made the decision to bring in Heung-Min Son more straightforward than it might have been.

"From a recruitment perspective, the tactical and physical demands that Mauricio Pochettino places upon his players are really important because they are fundamental to the style of play that he prefers," explains Mackenzie. "Therefore in order to support the terrific work that he and his coaching team does out on the grass you have to recommend players who are capable of doing what he requires.

"With that in mind, if you are able to identify players who are currently experiencing success within a relatively similar playing style and who can handle the physical demands asked of the player within that style then you hope that the possibility of that player not being able to cope is minimised.

"From a very basic attacking output perspective, in both of Son's two seasons at Bayer Leverkusen he scored 10+ goals but also importantly he only missed four match-day squads out of a possible 94 (and those were due to international commitments and suspension). This suggested that he had successfully adapted to the new demands that had been placed upon him there.

"Given Roger Schmidt's style of play it felt a good fit and Son's statistical data was also stable across a three-year period when compared to other targets. In his two years at Leverkusen he also played 16 Champions League games, which was a competition that the club was aspiring to compete in.

"His versatility was also important given the type of squad that we were trying to assemble at Tottenham. Paul Mitchell, the club's head of recruitment, was very familiar with Son when he played as a central striker at HSV so he knew what he was capable of when playing both through the middle and in wide areas.

"There are a whole host of things that are taken into account when evaluating if a player (either domestic or abroad) is suitable for the remit that you are recruiting against. You are constantly trying to build a picture of who the player actually is and you are trying to put their current performance level into context while anticipating the future.

"More recently, I would argue that Vincent Janssen's personality, robustness and his ability to deal with the challenges that he had faced in his career were as important, if not more important, than his goalscoring record in the Eredivisie. As a youngster who had been released by Feyenoord he demonstrated the mental resilience to overcome that disappointment by experiencing a continual increment in game time, level of competition and output across a three-year spell, which culminated in him becoming the starting striker for the Netherlands.

"From a scouting and recruitment perspective, whether you are evaluating a player from home or abroad, there is significant risk associated with it as there is a human being behind the performances and numbers and when signing a player you are initiating a significant change in their lives that they have to respond to.


"In trying to enhance the probability of it being a successful transition for both parties you try to place everything that you know and are aware of into perspective in order to make the best subjective decision that you can."

There are still no guarantees, of course. But by taking everything into account when buying from abroad, whether it's the style of play with which a player is familiar or the substance of his character, the risks can be minimised.



http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-scouting-the-challenge-of-buying-from-abroad
 
At Tottenham, it was Bayer Leverkusen who were seen as a side adopting a similar style of play. Roger Schmidt's commitment to a pressing game is well documented and that made the decision to bring in Heung-Min Son more straightforward than it might have been.

"From a recruitment perspective, the tactical and physical demands that Mauricio Pochettino places upon his players are really important because they are fundamental to the style of play that he prefers," explains Mackenzie. "Therefore in order to support the terrific work that he and his coaching team does out on the grass you have to recommend players who are capable of doing what he requires.

"With that in mind, if you are able to identify players who are currently experiencing success within a relatively similar playing style and who can handle the physical demands asked of the player within that style then you hope that the possibility of that player not being able to cope is minimised.

"From a very basic attacking output perspective, in both of Son's two seasons at Bayer Leverkusen he scored 10+ goals but also importantly he only missed four match-day squads out of a possible 94 (and those were due to international commitments and suspension). This suggested that he had successfully adapted to the new demands that had been placed upon him there.

"Given Roger Schmidt's style of play it felt a good fit and Son's statistical data was also stable across a three-year period when compared to other targets. In his two years at Leverkusen he also played 16 Champions League games, which was a competition that the club was aspiring to compete in.

"His versatility was also important given the type of squad that we were trying to assemble at Tottenham. Paul Mitchell, the club's head of recruitment, was very familiar with Son when he played as a central striker at HSV so he knew what he was capable of when playing both through the middle and in wide areas.

"There are a whole host of things that are taken into account when evaluating if a player (either domestic or abroad) is suitable for the remit that you are recruiting against. You are constantly trying to build a picture of who the player actually is and you are trying to put their current performance level into context while anticipating the future.

"More recently, I would argue that Vincent Janssen's personality, robustness and his ability to deal with the challenges that he had faced in his career were as important, if not more important, than his goalscoring record in the Eredivisie. As a youngster who had been released by Feyenoord he demonstrated the mental resilience to overcome that disappointment by experiencing a continual increment in game time, level of competition and output across a three-year spell, which culminated in him becoming the starting striker for the Netherlands.

"From a scouting and recruitment perspective, whether you are evaluating a player from home or abroad, there is significant risk associated with it as there is a human being behind the performances and numbers and when signing a player you are initiating a significant change in their lives that they have to respond to.


"In trying to enhance the probability of it being a successful transition for both parties you try to place everything that you know and are aware of into perspective in order to make the best subjective decision that you can."

There are still no guarantees, of course. But by taking everything into account when buying from abroad, whether it's the style of play with which a player is familiar or the substance of his character, the risks can be minimised.



http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-scouting-the-challenge-of-buying-from-abroad

Thanks for sharing this. I guess this explains why the club chose Janssen, which when you look at it is very logical. It has not come off as yet, but hopefully he will show the same resilience and prove the doubters in the media wrong!
 
Thanks for sharing this. I guess this explains why the club chose Janssen, which when you look at it is very logical. It has not come off as yet, but hopefully he will show the same resilience and prove the doubters in the media wrong!
He has ability and clearly a great attitude

I think he needs a likely break or two (Kane had the deflected free kick vs Villa) and he also needs backing

Let's see, but I don't see him being shifted any time soon
 
At Tottenham, it was Bayer Leverkusen who were seen as a side adopting a similar style of play. Roger Schmidt's commitment to a pressing game is well documented and that made the decision to bring in Heung-Min Son more straightforward than it might have been.

"From a recruitment perspective, the tactical and physical demands that Mauricio Pochettino places upon his players are really important because they are fundamental to the style of play that he prefers," explains Mackenzie. "Therefore in order to support the terrific work that he and his coaching team does out on the grass you have to recommend players who are capable of doing what he requires.

"With that in mind, if you are able to identify players who are currently experiencing success within a relatively similar playing style and who can handle the physical demands asked of the player within that style then you hope that the possibility of that player not being able to cope is minimised.

"From a very basic attacking output perspective, in both of Son's two seasons at Bayer Leverkusen he scored 10+ goals but also importantly he only missed four match-day squads out of a possible 94 (and those were due to international commitments and suspension). This suggested that he had successfully adapted to the new demands that had been placed upon him there.

"Given Roger Schmidt's style of play it felt a good fit and Son's statistical data was also stable across a three-year period when compared to other targets. In his two years at Leverkusen he also played 16 Champions League games, which was a competition that the club was aspiring to compete in.

"His versatility was also important given the type of squad that we were trying to assemble at Tottenham. Paul Mitchell, the club's head of recruitment, was very familiar with Son when he played as a central striker at HSV so he knew what he was capable of when playing both through the middle and in wide areas.

"There are a whole host of things that are taken into account when evaluating if a player (either domestic or abroad) is suitable for the remit that you are recruiting against. You are constantly trying to build a picture of who the player actually is and you are trying to put their current performance level into context while anticipating the future.

"More recently, I would argue that Vincent Janssen's personality, robustness and his ability to deal with the challenges that he had faced in his career were as important, if not more important, than his goalscoring record in the Eredivisie. As a youngster who had been released by Feyenoord he demonstrated the mental resilience to overcome that disappointment by experiencing a continual increment in game time, level of competition and output across a three-year spell, which culminated in him becoming the starting striker for the Netherlands.

"From a scouting and recruitment perspective, whether you are evaluating a player from home or abroad, there is significant risk associated with it as there is a human being behind the performances and numbers and when signing a player you are initiating a significant change in their lives that they have to respond to.


"In trying to enhance the probability of it being a successful transition for both parties you try to place everything that you know and are aware of into perspective in order to make the best subjective decision that you can."

There are still no guarantees, of course. But by taking everything into account when buying from abroad, whether it's the style of play with which a player is familiar or the substance of his character, the risks can be minimised.



http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-scouting-the-challenge-of-buying-from-abroad
Off topic, but what does Mackenzie do and what does Mitchell do? Are they one and the same, or is it a process, whereby Mitchell identifies players and the Mackenzie does the further evaluation, in the fashion outlined above?
 
Off topic, but what does Mackenzie do and what does Mitchell do? Are they one and the same, or is it a process, whereby Mitchell identifies players and the Mackenzie does the further evaluation, in the fashion outlined above?

Mackenzie is director of recruitment at Derby and Mitchell is seeing out his contract at Tottenham. :p

Mackenzie would mostly have been out scouting players and putting together dossiers. Mitchell is the head of the department, so has a lot of different responsibilities. There's a bit in the Standard now about him wanting to move into management.
 
How long would you give dembele to perform though???

Serious question as lots of us wanted Batshuiyi and he looks poor too given sporadic game time. Hell there are strong rumours of him being shifted already after half a season

Whoever comes in will play second fiddle to Kane unless their truly world class. That takes a hell of an attitude to be that man and it's not something you would asosociate with most strikers as their generally quite selfish by nature

Fair point, I think there's a case for having three strikers though. Kane shouldn't be playing every game and if Jannsen had been getting more goals I don't think there would be the reliance on him whip there currently is. Luckily Son, Erikssen and Dele have chipped in. I think Dembele's pace and skill would unlikely deliver no goals from 33 open play attempts however so moving him into a more competitive place in the squad is viable. With Jannseen it simply isn't. He'll start against Wycombe in the 4th round of the fa cup but even Verts could probably do a job against them.
 
I really rate this guy and he impresses me every time I see him play. I get the argument that the SPL is not that good, but I think that move worked out well for him (not for us) on many levels. Yes, he is a little rough around the edges but to me he looks to have everything. We missed out on him once (or maybe twice) already. We might only get one more chance at snagging him and then he truly will be out of our league.
 
I really rate this guy and he impresses me every time I see him play. I get the argument that the SPL is not that good, but I think that move worked out well for him (not for us) on many levels. Yes, he is a little rough around the edges but to me he looks to have everything. We missed out on him once (or maybe twice) already. We might only get one more chance at snagging him and then he truly will be out of our league.
He looks the real deal. Didn't look out of place in the champions league.
 
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