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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

harr1984 said:
Yeah thats fair, if this is to be some sort of consolidation season - as long as we do end up finishing top 4. Because if we do mess this up from here,I dont think you can say we've improved and would show there is definitely some mental fragility that has reared its ugly head once again....
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Exactly, we are consolidating this season. If you look at it, statistically at least - we are broadly matching/improving last year. And yet people are seemingly disappointed, what does that tell you?

I think that people know there is more to come, and thats why. I also think people should show patience though, you need to get through the tough times to grow, dont you?


Finney Is Back said:
While Ronaldo is indeed a walking ego. I don't see him as somebody who would be disruptive towards a manager (providing that he is being picked regularly and he is still easily good enough to be first choice for any team). Ronaldo seems to be a real winner and I think he would be an advocate of a manager who was doing all he could to improve the team and gain more Silverware.
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It was an off hand example, but I think you kind of make my point - " providing that he is being picked regularly.. "

If Ronaldo is happy, then fine. However, if he isnt, then I think he could be a hugely disrupting influence. Both in the squad and over the managers head.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think in some ways we have. I also think (and I know you dont) we have done incredibly well being away from home all season.

We have managed this season brilliantly, IMHO, and to be positioned as we are now is a real achievment.

I feel that last season we hit a high point under Poch, played something like he really wants. This season we havent quite hit it in the same way but have still developed. In a lot of ways, its that difficult second season - where things dont come so easily but you end up learning and developing more.

Next season I expect a step forward based on this.

And, when you think about it, where could that leave us?
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While I agree with much of what you say here, the one area which we have undoubtedly regressed is in our acquisition policy. Our latest recruits have simply not had the impact required: Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier, Moura, Llorente have, for various reasons, not really added anything to the team this season. I am not completely giving up on Aurier and Moura and recognise that Foyth was bought with the future in mind. So, although I accept some may be regarded as investments for the future, what we needed then (and need now) is players that will add strength to the first team immediately.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Exactly, we are consolidating this season. If you look at it, statistically at least - we are broadly matching/improving last year. And yet people are seemingly disappointed, what does that tell you?

I think that people know there is more to come, and thats why. I also think people should show patience though, you need to get through the tough times to grow, dont you?
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I thought the main disappointment isnt where we are in the league as such, more that we are still falling short at the final hurdles, that we are still being 'sexy' in looking good yet still failing to win anything ie flattering to deceive. Most people predicted/hoped for a top 4 place and we are on course so there shouldnt be any major complaints if that objective is achieved. Im not sure if the majority of fans know there is more to come, or if they just hope there is? If I was a betting man Id lean towards there is more to come, but we dont know for certain. It could be that we missed our chance to really capitalise when all the big boys are now in transition and that now is going to be a real battle just to stay in the top 4 let alone improve on our standing of past couple of years. Who knows....
 
Pirate55 said:
While I agree with much of what you say here, the one area which we have undoubtedly regressed is in our acquisition policy. Our latest recruits have simply not had the impact required: Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier, Moura, Llorente have, for various reasons, not really added anything to the team this season. I am not completely giving up on Aurier and Moura and recognise that Foyth was bought with the future in mind. So, although I accept some may be regarded as investments for the future, what we needed then (and need now) is players that will add strength to the first team immediately.
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I dont think our policy has changed (much).

I think we are now speculating with larger fees, but otherwise we are operating in the same way.

Its a policy that inherently has more risk than that of our rivals.

They can afford to buy proven quality, we are looking for rough diamonds to polish and bargains. Its a policy that will always be more miss than hit.

Thankfully the team has evolved such that I think we can shift gears a bit and focus on two high class additions (IF we can get them in) rather than a handful of "Punts" each window/season.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Exactly, we are consolidating this season. If you look at it, statistically at least - we are broadly matching/improving last year. And yet people are seemingly disappointed, what does that tell you?

I think that people know there is more to come, and thats why. I also think people should show patience though, you need to get through the tough times to grow, dont you?
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I think many people are fearful of us ballsing up top 4 (and not without good cause, IMO), because they sense that, if we do, it could set us back more than just next season. Having flirted with greatness and come close for a couple of seasons, the fear is that we could just end up with another few years of "transition" to show for it. Tough times and jam tomorrow is good for character-building, but anyone who's followed Spurs since the start of the Premier League era and before (and you don't carry that card without knowing the meaning of patience) can be forgiven for having had enough of it to last a lifetime.
 
harr1984 said:
I thought the main disappointment isnt where we are in the league as such, more that we are still falling short at the final hurdles, that we are still being 'sexy' in looking good yet still failing to win anything ie flattering to deceive. Most people predicted/hoped for a top 4 place and we are on course so there shouldnt be any major complaints if that objective is achieved. Im not sure if the majority of fans know there is more to come, or if they just hope there is? If I was a betting man Id lean towards there is more to come, but we dont know for certain. It could be that we missed our chance to really capitalise when all the big boys are now in transition and that now is going to be a real battle just to stay in the top 4 let alone improve on our standing of past couple of years. Who knows....
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Last season everyone was basically happy, riding high, seeing the potential, enjoying the football...

By most objective measures this season has gone largely the same, if not better considering the CL showing, and yet people are much more down on the side.

I dont disagree, I know its frustrating to fall at that last hurdle, and I know the last month hasnt gone well so the mood is down anyway - but honestly I think people are generally just expecting "more" year on year (as has been delivered) without really stopping to take stock.

And I think a lot of that is to do with the obvious potential in the side.

I remember years back posting in the summer "If we just get a DM, a striker and a RB we could push for CL!", that feeling of being really close to stepping up... Now? Now its more "If we can just get a game changer we can win the league!"

It bears a little thought, IMO.
 
Pirate55 said:
While I agree with much of what you say here, the one area which we have undoubtedly regressed is in our acquisition policy. Our latest recruits have simply not had the impact required: Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier, Moura, Llorente have, for various reasons, not really added anything to the team this season. I am not completely giving up on Aurier and Moura and recognise that Foyth was bought with the future in mind. So, although I accept some may be regarded as investments for the future, what we needed then (and need now) is players that will add strength to the first team immediately.
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We are alway going to be hit and miss the lower down the quality level you shop.
Even when you spend a few bob the can struggle De Bruyne, Salah and Salado to name but three
 
mudshark said:
I think many people are fearful of us ballsing up top 4 (and not without good cause, IMO), because they sense that, if we do, it could set us back more than just next season. Having flirted with greatness and come close for a couple of seasons, the fear is that we could just end up with another few years of "transition" to show for it. Tough times and jam tomorrow is good for character-building, but anyone who's followed Spurs since the start of the Premier League era and before (and you don't carry that card without knowing the meaning of patience) can be forgiven for having had enough of it to last a lifetime.
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Ive never known a Spurs fan genuinely allow for a little optimism, ever "expect" a result because they know the team is good enough.

Simply because they have been burned so many times in the past. I get it. But I also get this - from my FB feed this morning:

"You can never underestimate the impact of the supporters and how the energy from the stands translates to the team.
We need to all enter into these final matches together and show our character and strength as a unit" - Pochettino.

I think he and the team have earned that. I think many fans expect to be shown the team are great before believing and "committing" to that sort of thinking. While I understand it, I think its wrong. As @billyiddo said earlier about the semi final - the crowd were nervous from the off and never really got behind the team when the going got tough.

What if all the gonads about winning mentality etc was actually down to us all along? What if, were we to really get behind the team, WE make the difference between whether or not the team makes that step up?
 
Pirate55 said:
While I agree with much of what you say here, the one area which we have undoubtedly regressed is in our acquisition policy. Our latest recruits have simply not had the impact required: Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier, Moura, Llorente have, for various reasons, not really added anything to the team this season. I am not completely giving up on Aurier and Moura and recognise that Foyth was bought with the future in mind. So, although I accept some may be regarded as investments for the future, what we needed then (and need now) is players that will add strength to the first team immediately.
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Agree with this, I dont think our signings have added much this season bar Sanchez. Aurier will be a player,Im very confident on that and Moura too - just frustrating that he hasnt been used more, I get that he is just being integrated Poch style but there really have been instances where he should have been used more regardless. If we could get Sess and Zaha that would be a massive improvement already, need to hope Fulham dont get promoted....
 
Pirate55 said:
While I agree with much of what you say here, the one area which we have undoubtedly regressed is in our acquisition policy. Our latest recruits have simply not had the impact required: Sissoko, Foyth, Aurier, Moura, Llorente have, for various reasons, not really added anything to the team this season. I am not completely giving up on Aurier and Moura and recognise that Foyth was bought with the future in mind. So, although I accept some may be regarded as investments for the future, what we needed then (and need now) is players that will add strength to the first team immediately.
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not so sure about the part in bold, the general consensus at the end of last season was that our starting XI was very strong, arguably on paper the strongest in the league, at that point we had the meanest defense in the league and equal strongest attack and that it was strength in depth where we were lacking and was why we were unable to compete better across the board, i would agree the players listed haven't worked out but i think the areas targeted (Kane cover, Walker replacement, starting CB, prospect at CB and AM competition) all made sense and were what was needed at the time - they haven't worked out, yet, granted but i don't recall there being much call for starting XI improvements last summer.

This summer i would say that has changed and we need to improve the first XI in a couple of areas
 
billyiddo said:
not so sure about the part in bold, the general consensus at the end of last season was that our starting XI was very strong, arguably on paper the strongest in the league, at that point we had the meanest defense in the league and equal strongest attack and that it was strength in depth where we were lacking, i would agree the players listed haven't worked out but i think the areas targeted (Kane cover, Walker replacement, starting CB, prospect at CB and AM competition) were what was needed.
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It gets glossed over, but the injuries we have suffered this season have been almost tactical/strategic.

Wanyama, Dembele and Alderweireld being out for sustained periods basically ripped the guts out of the side.

We are where we are having played a rookie defender all season, bloody Sissoko for half a season, running Dier into the ground...

Our defense has been more exposed, our midfield less solid and less creative... And yet here we are.

Strength in depth would have made all the difference.
 
billyiddo said:
not so sure about the part in bold, the general consensus at the end of last season was that our starting XI was very strong, arguably on paper the strongest in the league, at that point we had the meanest defense in the league and equal strongest attack and that it was strength in depth where we were lacking and was why we were unable to compete better across the board, i would agree the players listed haven't worked out but i think the areas targeted (Kane cover, Walker replacement, starting CB, prospect at CB and AM competition) all made sense and were what was needed at the time - they haven't worked out, yet, granted but i don't recall there being much call for starting XI improvements last summer.

This summer i would say that has changed and we need
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But since then we've lost Walker, Toby (probably), Rose doesnt look the same player. Our first XI is a way off being the best in the league, we definitely need some talent that will add to the first XI.....
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
If I were a betting man my money would be on Boro. Pulis is going to Pulis the hell out of these games, and smile smuggly as he passes Stoke and WBA on their way down.

Fulham are a good side, but streaky, and right now they seem to be on the down more than up
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Have you seen Fulhams play off record? It is AWFUL. Boro are a good shout, Ive never been impressed when Ive seen Villa either....
 
harr1984 said:
But since then we've lost Walker, Toby, Rose doesnt look the same player. Our first XI is a way off being the best in the league, we definitely need some talent that will add to the first XI.....
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agreed that this summer it is a different situation but i was referring to last summer in response to pirate saying what we needed then was first XI signings, when at the time i don't recall that being the case, the focus pretty much across the board from supporters was that it was strength in depth that we needed to work on - as stated, we needed a replacement for Walker (which we signed, he just hasn't worked out) but at that moment both Alderweireld and Rose were still part of the equation. to me, as explained previously, our transfer business/policy last summer made complete sense on paper, it's just several have not had the impact that would have been expected and that is a valid complaint and something we need to improve on (the quality of signing/getting them up to speed quicker)
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
It gets glossed over, but the injuries we have suffered this season have been almost tactical/strategic.

Wanyama, Dembele and Alderweireld being out for sustained periods basically ripped the guts out of the side.

We are where we are having played a rookie defender all season, bloody Sissoko for half a season, running Dier into the ground...

Our defense has been more exposed, our midfield less solid and less creative... And yet here we are.

Strength in depth would have made all the difference.
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could be argued that with Alderweireld Rose and Wanyama missing large spells of the season and of course losing Walker too that our renewed strength in depth has allowed us to maintain a good level regardless - that's 4 key players from the season previous not in the team and we're still in the mix, would we have performed as well last season or the season prior with the same number of key players missing for a similar amount of time? i don't think so personally, which points to a much improved strength in depth, however for each of Alderwiered Rose and Wanyama that aren't going to be in the fold next season we will need high level replacements (thinking of along the lines of Sanches) Dembele too if he goes - big window ahead...
 
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harr1984 said:
Have you seen Fulhams play off record? It is AWFUL. Boro are a good shout, Ive never been impressed when Ive seen Villa either....
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Villa are boring and unspectacular but reasonably decent. They have odd games where they look the part, but in all honestly lack actual quality.

And Bruce is just as inconsistent, either gets it really right or really wrong.

Boro actually have match winners, and as I said Pulis will Pulis the hell out of it as well.

Fulham are quality on their day, but again only have a few genuine quality players, its all about if they get the wind in their sails. The way they flopped on the last day suggests they dont have the big games in them yet...

billyiddo said:
could be argued that with Alderweireld Rose and Wanyama missing large spells of the season and of course losing Walker too that our renewed strength in depth has allowed us to maintain a good level regardless - that's 4 key players from the season previous not in the team and we're still in the mix, would we have performed as well last season or the season prior with the same number of key players missing for a similar amount of time? i don't think so personally
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Dont forget Dembele.

I think its tremendous we are where we are, considering, and that really does come down to the squad we have. Thats a very fair point.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Villa are boring and unspectacular but reasonably decent. They have odd games where they look the part, but in all honestly lack actual quality.

And Bruce is just as inconsistent, either gets it really right or really wrong.

Boro actually have match winners, and as I said Pulis will Pulis the hell out of it as well.

Fulham are quality on their day, but again only have a few genuine quality players, its all about if they get the wind in their sails. The way they flopped on the last day suggests they dont have the big games in them yet...



Dont forget Dembele.

I think its tremendous we are where we are, considering, and that really does come down to the squad we have. Thats a very fair point.
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Pulis the hell out of it:D I like that....
 
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