Yiddo
Jack Jull
Take away City and the rest of the teams they have played so far have not exactly been great have they? Sevilla and Roma are not even in the top 3 best teams in their leagues.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
Take away City and the rest of the teams they have played so far have not exactly been great have they? Sevilla and Roma are not even in the top 3 best teams in their leagues.
I personally want trophies, Top 4 in reality means sod all if the manager isn't backed properly and he hasn't been with CL in the past. 6th and FA Cup would be perfectly acceptable to me. As long as we are in Europe every season then I don't mind but I wouldn't accept a Chelsea-esque off season where you finish 10th and go out of everything early doors.
StephenH
David Ginola
So do I, but ones that mean something. League titles and champions league.
FA Cup has little relevance in today’s game. Teams don’t give a monkeys about the cups. The both started to die back when TV started showing football every day. The cup was big draw before 80s when they were a big live tv occasion. Now it’s just another game.
Soon the league and fa cups will be combined and will be played all midweek except for the final which will show on Saturday for nostalgia reasons.
I loved the fa and league in the 70s and 80s then it became lost in an avalanche of live football.
Mate, it means something to the fans going week in week out, don't be kidded by the tripe thrown out by the media. It may carry a little less prestige than years back but ultimately a team is judged on its trophy haul and I would like to get us back into that particular top 4 having been usurped by Chelsea over recent years. The feeling of beating Chelsea to win the league cup in 2008 was amazing and it would be enhanced further if it was the FA Cup given our association with that trophy. Not forgetting as well that the players would like medals........when they are asked to show them at the end of their career they don't want to say got Top 4 three years in a row but never won anything.
I would like the League and CL or Europa league but one step at a time, if we can't win the League Cup........
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
And this year of all years getting into the CL was more important than winning the League/FA Cup. To have our first season at NWHL with CL is essential for us as a growing force in football and financial terms.
StephenH
David Ginola
Winning a cup will be great and it will be good for some fans moral.
But it has next to no financial reward in the scheme of things in today’s game.
The Premier League and UEFA have blown football as we knew it back in the 80s into a different world. You may not like it but it is what it is.
StephenH
David Ginola
Some folk really can’t identify with the EPL and CL era, I can truly understand that, like many changes in life they are not always acceptable to everyone.
We all must try not to be too dismissive of how others are uncomfortable with this change in football.
It isn't how it is. You don't have to win the CL to make serious money from it and the same with the PL......that's how you are being made to think.
The club get enough financial reward just from taking part in these other competitions, ticket money, sponsorship.
You ask Kyle Walker whether he would have stayed at Tottenham in a swap for his medals if we had paid him50k more a week than City offered him? He would tell you the extra 50k means sod all compared to his two winners medals and that is what the players still at the club will be saying if we don't start winning stuff because they can get the money and medals elsewhere and if we aren't paying the money then we have to be winning medals.....the 'project' won't be keeping anyone at Tottenham post 2018/19 because it has had long enough already - 5 years under Pochettino by then and players will not wait around forever.
StephenH
David Ginola
Sadly I don’t see things as you do. I’m happy we have made to CL next season.
Players will come go for all different reasons but number one is money then titles and CL football.
No manager worth his salt in today’s game will prioritise cup games.
I don’t listen to the media. Money has changed the game totally.
The cups will get more and more marginalised purely due to the lack financial reward to the clubs, so the owners of the clubs won’t bother with them.
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90291Spur
Paul Walsh
If we could have paid Walker 50k a week more than Emirates Marketing Project it would mean that we would be able to pay several other players that sort of money which would mean we would have the POTENTIAL to have better players that we have, perhaps even a squad with equivalent strengths to Emirates Marketing Project, and thus Walker's chances of winning medals would be higher. And we wouldn't be potentially losing Rose and Toby because we couldn't pay them what they could get elsewhere.
There is a chasm of disconnect between a club like Tottenham and many of the fans. Many would have loved nothing more than to have won the FA cup this year and finished 5th, but I suspect if that had happened we'd have struggled to keep some of our better players with the tempting lure of CL footy AND higher wages.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I'm confused. If we had the finances to pay Walker 50k more than City (and I will assume by extension, pay all the other players great money too, as well as attracting new ones of that calibre), why on earth would any player be more likely to win a medal elsewhere? Just because we are called Tottenham?
I absolutely think if we could have paid Walker and the others 50k more than City or PSG would offer they would stay with us. Just as City and Chelsea used that same advantage to build themselves into trophy winners when they were able to.
I think you and the others have misunderstood what I was meaning. Walker didn't just go for money, he knew he would get medals as well so I think if Tottenham had matched or exceeded Citys offer, he would still have gone and he wouldn't swap those medals to have remained at Tottenham on theoretically higher pay in the example I'm using.......I certainly don't mean we were capable of offering it to him or others, that's not what I meant. The point being that it isn't just about money with players.....if our fanbase thinks it is solely that they are wrong. We might start paying 140/150k over the next year or so but if we aren't winning things, that will never be enough on its own
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
One thing I know from having met some ex prem players who were not medal winners is... their not scared of highlighting the wealth they made in the game regardless of medals ...
Medals do matter but for most now it’s all about the ££££ and that’s how it’s gone
People didn’t join city because they were winning things, the joined because they offered better players silly money... which in turn improved the squad and made them better.
Medals do matter but for most now it’s all about the ££££ and that’s how it’s gone
People didn’t join city because they were winning things, the joined because they offered better players silly money... which in turn improved the squad and made them better.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I disagree. Players follow the money now as there as so few trophies out there to win. They constantly get told it’s a short career and to maximise the moolah. When you have that drummed into you by agents and ex pros you listen even if it isn’t neccesarily true
I don't think it is solely to do with that now, I think for a 10-15 year period it was all about maximising income but the sums are so vast now wherever you go if you are a decent player that they want trophies to go with it. I'm telling you now, absolutely no way do we keep our players even if they are on 180k a week if we aren't winning anything. They know even for the same money they are likely to win things elsewhere if they have been here for 5-6 years and not got a medal to show for it and I wouldn't blame them
Don't doubt it but you put those same players in a room with others who have multiples medals and titles and suddenly they don't feel quite as important
Of course people didn't initially join City to win trophies because that was a given at the start, it was always going to take 2-3 seasons with those windows to bring all the players in but players will join City now for money and they know they will likely get a pot a season minimum unless they have a bad year.
Christ, are we back to this deceased equine?
- First, lets enjoy an achievement the club hasn't had in 5+ decades, a consistent place at the elite table.
Then, if we want to discuss
- Top 4 is not an almost trophy, it is a seat at the most elite club competition in the world, it recognizes us as one of the best of the top leagues in Europe.
- It provides free PR, marketing, brand recognition and revenue for the club, all of which = better chance of competing domestically.
There is a plan here, vs. the flimflam narrative of no progress because we haven't won a domestic cup.
- Ten to fifteen years ago, we were in a bucket with Villa, with Saudi Sportswashing Machine & Everton ahead of us, and European football of any kind decades in the past.
We took that, changed our model, type of players, type of managers and became best of the rest
- Since then, we have invested in training facilities, better players, a manager that fits our model, new stadium
- We now have become a CL regular, with a new stadium promising a significant increase in revenue that helps our long term income model.
People can complain the trophy didn't come this year or last, but you would have to have a real aversion to reality if you cannot look at the last 15 years of Spurs and not see a plan, progress and a future that due to the stadium, improved brand recognition and consistent results, makes us relevant for at least the next 2 decades.
Poch has to take some credit for the execution, Levy the plan .. enjoy the summer and stop being miserable sods ...
- First, lets enjoy an achievement the club hasn't had in 5+ decades, a consistent place at the elite table.
Then, if we want to discuss
- Top 4 is not an almost trophy, it is a seat at the most elite club competition in the world, it recognizes us as one of the best of the top leagues in Europe.
- It provides free PR, marketing, brand recognition and revenue for the club, all of which = better chance of competing domestically.
There is a plan here, vs. the flimflam narrative of no progress because we haven't won a domestic cup.
- Ten to fifteen years ago, we were in a bucket with Villa, with Saudi Sportswashing Machine & Everton ahead of us, and European football of any kind decades in the past.
We took that, changed our model, type of players, type of managers and became best of the rest
- Since then, we have invested in training facilities, better players, a manager that fits our model, new stadium
- We now have become a CL regular, with a new stadium promising a significant increase in revenue that helps our long term income model.
People can complain the trophy didn't come this year or last, but you would have to have a real aversion to reality if you cannot look at the last 15 years of Spurs and not see a plan, progress and a future that due to the stadium, improved brand recognition and consistent results, makes us relevant for at least the next 2 decades.
Poch has to take some credit for the execution, Levy the plan .. enjoy the summer and stop being miserable sods ...
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Again I have to ask, why would a player getting paid top wages at our club, playing in a squad full of top quality players also getting paid top wages, under a top quality manager, why would that player in question decide to leave to win medals? What makes them more likely to win medals elsewhere?
Why are Emirates Marketing Project suddenly winning things? They have invested a brick load of money, and eventually it started paying off. That is the only reason they have been more likely to win things over the last few years than we have, but at the start of that journey players still came to them because they offered more money.
The 6 years previous, of us not winning a trophy, is old style, pre-Poch, pre new stadium Spurs, where we had a 36k stadium and for a long time our top wage was 70k. If we were to enter an era where we could start offering genuinely top wages comparable with Emirates Marketing Project, I absolutely think we would be able to keep players. Because I still do not see why a player would be more likely to win trophies with them, as opposed to us in that scenario.
FWIW, I don't think we will start offering City or United wages, but we will probably move closer to Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea generally, and that will be enough to hold on to most players for a few more years longer than we could have, because the pool of clubs that they could move to where they could get obviously better wages reduces significantly. They either need to improve enough to warrant a place in a side that will pay them 250-300k or they need to wait for a more limited space to open up whereby a club would make a move for them. But in any case, I definitely take issue with the idea that players would be more likely to win a trophy elsewhere if we were able to offer genuinely top tier wages. There is just no reason as to why that would be the case.
Ok, its gone in circles a bit here. If we offered a potential new signing 150k a week and City/Utd offered him the same, what would be one of the determining factors? Possible honours. Are they at this moment in time, more likely to win the League or CL with City? If you answer no then fine. For the same reason you state about how it took City a while, it would take us a while even with top wages to be seen as more likely to win things because, we would actually have start winning them whereas a potential signing can look at those two clubs see what they have won recently and feel they have an enhanced chance of winning something in the short term there.
