Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
We've been burned by Ossie and Hoddle.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
We've been burned by Ossie and Hoddle.
StephenH
David Ginola
True, that would be an appointment made with the heart. the guy is doing a fantastic job at Brighton.
Howe would be a brave appointment...
Poch is ATM as good as we would get......there is better out there. But not that many that I would like us to take a punt on.
Carlos Carvalhal I think is a good manager.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Howe needs to step it up IMO.
He has done a cracking job so far, but having established Bournemouth now (a feat in itself) he really needs to get them up a level to being a decent mid table side.
They play good football, but they conceed far too many, and their game is not always effective (For 43, Against 60 - for reference Crystal Palace have scored the same and conceeded 5 less!).
They are close to being a quality side, but they need more steel and need to exert more control, they can be really quite flakey.
If he can make that step, then Ill be much more on board with it.
And I say that as someone who has been a big fan of his/theirs since their Championship days.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im far from convinced. Sheff Wed gave him all the tools to get promoted 3 seasons in a row and they always fell short. And now after a bit of a new manager bounce Swansea have regressed to their previous form.
He has the ability to get teams playing generally well, but appears to lack the ability to get them to play when it counts, or play above their general level.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
We are in complete agreement here!! To just add to your excellent post above, the one thing Poch has not yet demonstrated is whether he could deal with established world class stars, their egos, and player power (which undid AVB at Chelscum). I am not convinced that his collegiate style of management will hold much sway with the Ronaldo's, Messi's, Naymar's of this world when asked to do double or triple training. I also agree that he wouldn't be given the time he needs at a big club.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think that comes down to the player.
A walking Ego like Ronaldo, who demands power at the club above the manager, I dont think he really gets on with anyone.
Someone like Bale? He just seems to me to be a top professional, why wouldnt he got on with him?
Its all about getting buy-in to the process, regardless of the stature of the player.
Im not sure thats true to say Pochs' work is slow - he hasnt been at any club for that long yet and had them all punching above their weight quickly.
He'd had only a couple of training sessions with Espanyol who were near the bottom of the table when he took over and got a 0-0 draw with Barca. From then on Espanyol were comfortably positioned in the league.
With Southampton he led them to 8th in his first full season, and with he got us to League Cup Final in first season and 5th and then CL the following season. He doesnt have a track record of being at a club for an extended period of time or for winning anything so we are very much stepping into the unknown assuming he remains here for the forseeable future as to whether giving him more time leads to greater success or not yet. Either way, I hope we get to find out....
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
Thanks @Robspur12 . On the Pellegrini point here is Wiki entry prior to his Real Madrid appointment:
Early years[edit]
As a coach Pellegrini has primarily managed teams in Spain, Argentina and Chile.[10] As in his career as a professional player, he also started off coaching Universidad de Chile during the 1988 season, but left the team at the middle of the season to take football coaching courses in Europe. The team's poor performance that year led to a relegation to the Division 2, though in 1989 they won the Division 2 championship, bringing them back to Division 1, where they have remained ever since.
In 1990, Arturo Salah was appointed as the manager of the Chilean national team, and he hired Pellegrini as his assistant coach and manager of the under-20 team. In 1990, Pellegrini was appointed manager of Palestino, where he stayed until 1992. Then, in 1992, he took on managership of O'Higgins for a year, before moving in 1993 to become coach of Universidad Católica, one of the most popular clubs in Chile. There he managed well-known players such as Alberto Acosta and Nestor Gorosito and took the team to victory in the prestigious Copa Interamericana in 1994 and the 1995 Copa Chile, though he could only finish as runner-up in 1994 and 1995 of the local Campeonato Nacional championship, a competition organized by the Chilean Football Federation in parallel to Division 1.
In 1998, Pellegrini had a brief spell back at Palestino before he was bought by Liga Deportiva Universitaria de Quito. He managed the Ecuadorian club to a national title in 1999, starting a tradition of coaches that followed him to the Ecuadorian team. Pellegrini also gave the club a good run in the Copa Libertadores, catching the eye of other South American managers.
San Lorenzo[edit]
Pellegrini joined Argentine club San Lorenzo de Almagro in 2001, one of only two non-Argentineans to manage the Buenos Aires team, and led them to their first international title in the Copa Mercosur. He was recommended to the club by San Lorenzo icon Nestor Gorosito, who had worked with Pellegrini at Universidad Católica. The recommendation paid dividends as Pellegrini led San Lorenzo to victory in the Argentine Clausura and the Copa Mercosur, South America's UEFA Cupequivalent.
River Plate[edit]
Pellegrini managed Argentine club River Plate from 2002 to 2003 and secured the Clausura championships in 2003, in which he utilised the talents of Andrés D'Alessandro, one of many Argentine playmakers to have been likened to Diego Maradona. His sale to Vfl Wolfsburg, however, proved a tough hurdle for Pellegrini to overcome and his side struggled to defend their status as Argentine champions in the 2003 Torneo Apertura. He resigned his post at the end of the campaign.
Villarreal[edit]
Pellegrini took over the managerial duties of Villarreal CF on 1 July 2004. In his first season in charge of the club, Villarreal qualified for the UEFA Champions Leagueafter finishing third in the league and reached the quarter-finals of the UEFA Cup. The following season, Villarreal reached the semi-finals of the 2005–06 UEFA Champions League, losing to Arsenal. Villarreal eventually finished seventh in La Liga that year. The following two seasons featured Villarreal finishing in both fifth and second place in the league, the latter being historic for the club. Pellegrini led El Submarino Amarillo to the Champions League knockout stages, where they drew Arsenal once again in the quarter-finals, losing out 4–1 on aggregate.
At the end of 2007, Villarreal offered Pellegrini an extended contract until 2011. On 31 May 2009, after the last La Liga match for Villarreal, Pellegrini said: "Nobody from Real Madrid has spoken with me. I have a contract with Villarreal, we finished the league today, and tomorrow we go on holiday," after being questioned by the press on rumours that he was in talks with Madrid.[11] On 1 June 2009, a Villarreal executive announced that Pellegrini would no longer continue at the club. The Valencian club executive specified that if Real Madrid wanted to sign the Chilean coach, they would have to pay Pellegrini's €4 million termination clause.
I think you will agree he had quite a bit of actually winning success before the Madrid appointment. Compare and contrast that with where Poch currently stands.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
He was at Espanyol for years beforehand, had an advantage.
With us we have seen year on year improvement, we were nothing like we have been the last 12 months in the first 12 months.
Yes he got credible results, but its only really the last year we have looked like a proper Pochettino team - and even then we still clearly have a way to develop. This is season number 4.
Compare and contrast to the like of Mourinho/Guardiola etc who go in and produce winning teams almost immediately.
Poch would not, IMHO, go into the Madrid job and have them winning the league within the first year or two. It would take him time to get them on board with his ways, bed things in etc.
Im sure they would still win many games, get into the CL etc, but thats not really what clubs like that demand is it? Thats just a given.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I agree this is the final step for me, and as such, I think he is absolutely capable of passing that test but hope that he gets the backing to do so via an impact signing this summer...
Do you think we've improved this year? Granted we were better in the CL but I dont think we've looked like a Poch team as much, I dont see us pressing like we used to or have the same intensity for the most part? No idea if this is a deliberate ploy or not.
Agree about Madrid and this is why I dont think he would be suited to those types of clubs - I dont envisage his methods would be so well receive with star studded line ups. But then looking at the flip side it only took a season for Pep at City before his methods shone through....
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Although Ossie's situation requires some context...he had the 12 point deduction over his head. A few weeks after he left, the 6 point reduction (halved from the original 12) had been lifted altogether and we were pushing the top 5. Glenn's was heart-breaking. he was ahead of his time but suffered from some very curious choices in the transfer market too...Toda?
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Toda - LOL. Pretty sure Hoddle wanted Scott Parker (when he was still at Charlton and being courted by the top clubs). Spurs offered £1m plus add-ons up to £5m and he was sold to Chelsea that summer for £11m...! Seem to remember Spurs finding a DM was the holy-grail back in those days.
On Ossie - you could argue he was ahead of his time. His famous 5 all-out attack wasn't far off Keegan's Saudi Sportswashing Machine. If Spurs had invested in some decent defenders at the time could we have been the mid-90s entertainers to challenge Fergie?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think in some ways we have. I also think (and I know you dont) we have done incredibly well being away from home all season.
We have managed this season brilliantly, IMHO, and to be positioned as we are now is a real achievment.
I feel that last season we hit a high point under Poch, played something like he really wants. This season we havent quite hit it in the same way but have still developed. In a lot of ways, its that difficult second season - where things dont come so easily but you end up learning and developing more.
Next season I expect a step forward based on this.
And, when you think about it, where could that leave us?
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Wouldn't bother me, think he deserves a go.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
At the time Parker was nothing of the sort though, at Charlton he was a goal scoring midfielder - more Lampard/Gerrard than DM.
At Chelsea he never got a look in there (or in general) and it was more Saudi Sportswashing Machine where he established himself deeper in midfield.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Definitely how I saw him too
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
And even with us, I still maintain, he was more hinderance than help after his first half a season.
Up until about Christmas he played a very strict DM role. Chased around like a rabid terrier and destroyed any move coming into our half. And then he gave it to Modric (a proper footballer) to do the business.
It was beautiful.
After this, he decided he really should be more of a box-to-box player, dictating play, making things happen...
...and honestly I fudging hated it. He simply wasnt good enough, and watching him charge through midfield only to waste the ball, but simultaneously forcing Modric into deep positions to cover - well it frustrates the hell out of me even now.
Parker should have known his limitations, and stuck to the job he did so well. And Redknapp should have actually managed the fudging team and told him what to do!
Up until about Christmas he played a very strict DM role. Chased around like a rabid terrier and destroyed any move coming into our half. And then he gave it to Modric (a proper footballer) to do the business.
It was beautiful.
After this, he decided he really should be more of a box-to-box player, dictating play, making things happen...
...and honestly I fudging hated it. He simply wasnt good enough, and watching him charge through midfield only to waste the ball, but simultaneously forcing Modric into deep positions to cover - well it frustrates the hell out of me even now.
Parker should have known his limitations, and stuck to the job he did so well. And Redknapp should have actually managed the fudging team and told him what to do!
Yeah thats fair, if this is to be some sort of consolidation season - as long as we do end up finishing top 4. Because if we do mess this up from here,I dont think you can say we've improved and would show there is definitely some mental fragility that has reared its ugly head once again....
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
While Ronaldo is indeed a walking ego. I don't see him as somebody who would be disruptive towards a manager (providing that he is being picked regularly and he is still easily good enough to be first choice for any team). Ronaldo seems to be a real winner and I think he would be an advocate of a manager who was doing all he could to improve the team and gain more Silverware.