The actual xG for both teams was not dissimilar to last seasons visit to Emirates Marketing Project. You may remember we were under the pump for large parts and went 2-0 down. The difference was that when we did get a chance we took it, once with a quality cross from Walker to Dele and once with a lovely move involving Kane and finished by Son. That was the difference on Saturday - we in no way maximised the small-ish opportunities that came our way.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
The actual xG for both teams was not dissimilar to last seasons visit to Emirates Marketing Project. You may remember we were under the pump for large parts and went 2-0 down. The difference was that when we did get a chance we took it, once with a quality cross from Walker to Dele and once with a lovely move involving Kane and finished by Son. That was the difference on Saturday - we in no way maximised the small-ish opportunities that came our way.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
That sir is an amazing post.
I know fudge all about the game other than what I pick up watching it on the tele or at the game itself, so other than some third rate theories based on "What if we did that not that" I am in no situation to second guess our best manager since Keith B.
What I will say is that I find it amazing that we have never had it so good as a club to some extent and there are fans out there who seem ultra keen to tear that down from the inside. The press and other people I get, I get them having an agenda to pick the Tottenham project apart but our own fans? I don't get it.
I came on here yesterday and said beating Stoke 5-1 was decent and got told it wasn't and Stoke were crap? How do you reason with that? Why as a fan of the club would you not take the glory from the 5-1 and go home happy, I don't go home after a game like that and still seek some Utopian existence for Spurs that does not exist, its mystifying. And what football fans have as the reply is "Whats wrong with wanting the best for your club" jeeezzz
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
I’ll certainly cut Poch some slack, he doesn’t have to be perfect with everything he continues to do.
With a move to a temp stadium (statistically all teams feel an impact and that’s normally when moving into a new home) a few injuries and a pressing schedule, all things considered we’re close to where we were in the league last season but have massively improved in the CL.
Need to sing Pochs name all the louder and get behind him.
Poch is supremely analytical and he will analyse his own decisions too, and of course everyone but everyone can learn. Thankful we have a manager that bases his work on that.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
With a move to a temp stadium (statistically all teams feel an impact and that’s normally when moving into a new home) a few injuries and a pressing schedule, all things considered we’re close to where we were in the league last season but have massively improved in the CL.
Need to sing Pochs name all the louder and get behind him.
Poch is supremely analytical and he will analyse his own decisions too, and of course everyone but everyone can learn. Thankful we have a manager that bases his work on that.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think the key point people miss is .. Poch, Levy and this team have earned "some slack"
thfcsteff
George Hunt
If it has an e in it then it's an inferior product!
It's all about the targeting. Whisky is made for connoisseurs to savour, whiskey is made to make drunks drunker
It's all about the targeting. Whisky is made for connoisseurs to savour, whiskey is made to make drunks drunker
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Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Let's get the Wembley season, and the first year in a new home season out the way before we start passing judgement on Poch. Players will move on and the club will still exist.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
@DubaiSpur
Just to add in to what a few people have been getting at in the latter pages here, I think most will agree there is nothing wrong with criticism levelled at anyone, no matter how successful. It’s how anyone improves. And Poch has shown himself to be a pretty great combination of confident enough in his beliefs but adaptable enough to learn throughout his time here. He will likely continue to do that.
The problem is with the nature of the criticism levelled him. I’m on my phone right now so it’s not easy to find the precise posts, but from memory you have called him too stubborn, too arrogant (I think) and have accused him of not being able to see things that you could see, or that he chooses not to see or act upon them, because of one of the aforementioned personality flaws.
And that last point is what is not ok. Because you really have no idea what he is thinking, what he sees, what he views as important going forward and what he sees in training all week. None of us do. Can he learn? Yes, everyone can. Which is why I bet he invited Conte to our training ground a couple of years ago. It’s why he’ll travel the world on the time off he gets to take in other football cultures and generate new ideas. It’s why he had a lunch with SAF. And if all else fails, he will ask his trusted assistants to tell him like it is if they feel like not everything is being done they could be done.
He will learn. No one knows it is more important than him. But he doesn’t deserve his personality traits called into question, and he doesn’t deserve (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) his tactical decisions being called out in such a manner by someone that doesn’t know 1/100000th of what he does about football. There could have been a million reasons he chose to set up the way he did, based on a level of analysis and data that we are nowhere close to having access to. There could also have been a million reasons why he chose to keep persisting with Trippier. Maybe Trippier wasn’t following instructions. Maybe the players expected to cover him weren’t doing their jobs and it actually required the shape being adjusted elsewhere. Maybe he simply thought it would be a good learning experience for Trippier to get roasted one on one to see if he could learn and adapt, making him a better player in the future. It could be a bunch of other things that I have no comprehension about.
Question our set up, say what you would have done differently by all means, it is what a discussion forum is for. But don’t call into question his personality and claim it was obviously a personality flaw because *you* know your tactics, because frankly he deserves better, he has earned better and it is just a bit arrogant to be claiming things about tactics and using that to claim things about personality flaws when you just don’t know.
Someone above made a great point, this team has earned trust and they deserve at least this season and the first in the new ground before serious pressure should be applied. It was always likely this couple of years would be a struggle and the absolute worst thing to do would be to allow undue pressure to build on Poch and allow a swell of opinion to start when he is clearly excellent at what he does. He deserves to see us through this with respect.
Just to add in to what a few people have been getting at in the latter pages here, I think most will agree there is nothing wrong with criticism levelled at anyone, no matter how successful. It’s how anyone improves. And Poch has shown himself to be a pretty great combination of confident enough in his beliefs but adaptable enough to learn throughout his time here. He will likely continue to do that.
The problem is with the nature of the criticism levelled him. I’m on my phone right now so it’s not easy to find the precise posts, but from memory you have called him too stubborn, too arrogant (I think) and have accused him of not being able to see things that you could see, or that he chooses not to see or act upon them, because of one of the aforementioned personality flaws.
And that last point is what is not ok. Because you really have no idea what he is thinking, what he sees, what he views as important going forward and what he sees in training all week. None of us do. Can he learn? Yes, everyone can. Which is why I bet he invited Conte to our training ground a couple of years ago. It’s why he’ll travel the world on the time off he gets to take in other football cultures and generate new ideas. It’s why he had a lunch with SAF. And if all else fails, he will ask his trusted assistants to tell him like it is if they feel like not everything is being done they could be done.
He will learn. No one knows it is more important than him. But he doesn’t deserve his personality traits called into question, and he doesn’t deserve (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) his tactical decisions being called out in such a manner by someone that doesn’t know 1/100000th of what he does about football. There could have been a million reasons he chose to set up the way he did, based on a level of analysis and data that we are nowhere close to having access to. There could also have been a million reasons why he chose to keep persisting with Trippier. Maybe Trippier wasn’t following instructions. Maybe the players expected to cover him weren’t doing their jobs and it actually required the shape being adjusted elsewhere. Maybe he simply thought it would be a good learning experience for Trippier to get roasted one on one to see if he could learn and adapt, making him a better player in the future. It could be a bunch of other things that I have no comprehension about.
Question our set up, say what you would have done differently by all means, it is what a discussion forum is for. But don’t call into question his personality and claim it was obviously a personality flaw because *you* know your tactics, because frankly he deserves better, he has earned better and it is just a bit arrogant to be claiming things about tactics and using that to claim things about personality flaws when you just don’t know.
Someone above made a great point, this team has earned trust and they deserve at least this season and the first in the new ground before serious pressure should be applied. It was always likely this couple of years would be a struggle and the absolute worst thing to do would be to allow undue pressure to build on Poch and allow a swell of opinion to start when he is clearly excellent at what he does. He deserves to see us through this with respect.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
I did throw out the “has he taken us as far as he can” question but I’d like to be clear where I stand.
Poch is by far the best manager I’ve seen at Spurs and we’ve had some good ones like Burkinshaw, Venables, BMJ and Harry. He’s not infallible and I think he’s made a few mistakes in his time. But I love his attention to detail, his brand of football, how he develops players and his long term plan for the club. I also love the fact that he reignited my love for the club after AVB and Tactics Tim.
I think he could have managed the Walker situation better because games like Saturday show how important Walker was. I think he could manage Rose better albeit Rose doesn’t make it easy. I think he could do better in some games against the big clubs.
But I wouldn’t swap him for the world. For all the things I think he could do better, he does a dozen things better than most managers.
Also if Alli, Rose or anyone else thinks they’re bigger than Tottenham, I’d let them f**k right off and keep faith with Poch because I do think he has an ability to see us through choppy waters and, like Fergie, build another team. And let’s be honest, if this is “choppy waters”, we’re doing very well. Remember the Ardiles, Gross and Pleat years.
Poch is by far the best manager I’ve seen at Spurs and we’ve had some good ones like Burkinshaw, Venables, BMJ and Harry. He’s not infallible and I think he’s made a few mistakes in his time. But I love his attention to detail, his brand of football, how he develops players and his long term plan for the club. I also love the fact that he reignited my love for the club after AVB and Tactics Tim.
I think he could have managed the Walker situation better because games like Saturday show how important Walker was. I think he could manage Rose better albeit Rose doesn’t make it easy. I think he could do better in some games against the big clubs.
But I wouldn’t swap him for the world. For all the things I think he could do better, he does a dozen things better than most managers.
Also if Alli, Rose or anyone else thinks they’re bigger than Tottenham, I’d let them f**k right off and keep faith with Poch because I do think he has an ability to see us through choppy waters and, like Fergie, build another team. And let’s be honest, if this is “choppy waters”, we’re doing very well. Remember the Ardiles, Gross and Pleat years.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
You typed all that on your phone? Impressive.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
And not an escaped goat in sight.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
Pochettino is in his 4th year as Spurs manager. This means, along with Redknapp(2008-2012), Pochettino is the joint-longest serving Spurs manager since Burkinshaw (1976-1984). Not many Spurs managers have had the luxury of being the manager for more than 3 years. In fact, in the last 70 years, only Rowe(1949-1955), Nicholson(1958-1974), Burkinshaw and Venables(1987-1991) have been the Spurs managers for longer than 3 years and they all won at least 1 major trophies, unlike Redknapp who failed to win any. Pochettino has done well to make us fight for league title for the last 2 seasons but he has not achieved anything yet. He needs to win trophies to make the history books remember him. To do that, he needs to buy more quality players to the team, not more youngsters. He has been given more time than most Spurs managers to build a team capable of winning trophies. So, he really cannot get complacent about being the Spurs manager for 4 years as it can turn against him quiet easily.
Olle73
Jason Dozzell
I´m not sure about that,in my book he has achieved very much. I have never been so proud about supporting Spurs as I am nowdays. I can really relate to the club and saying that I also supporting the fundamental structure of the club. He, Levy and all the others are building something that should work in the long term. Which means that he actually is buildning the history. And not to forget, he beat Arse last season.
For me that is more important than winning a trophy with sugardaddy-money.
We all recognise what Poch has done and is building. But you can dress it up any way you want, football is a results business and his legacy will be judged on what he wins. He has developed us no doubt, but the hardest thing in football is winning things as he has found out - hes come close to an FA Cup final, and come close ish to the league (positional wise, never really worried either title winner) which is great. But he needs to take that final hurdle soon, questions are already raised about how we dont win trophies - The players mention it, Poch himself keeps on going on about it so you cant hide behind the 'we punch above our weight' argument forever....
Olle73
Jason Dozzell
Like the society of today in general. The hunger for profits and victories are "all over the place". That is a disease that will ruin mankind because it creates a
selfishness that is not healthy. And you can see that within football also. But we have also seen that such hunger for profits and victories have destroyed footballclubs in the past, so I´m not sure if that is a recipe for a healthy, long living footballclub.
So for me it dosen't matter if he wins something, as long as he making me proud of supporting Tottenham.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
Robspur12 said: ↑
“It's not the questioning of the coach per se for me that is a problem. It is the manner in which it is done that irritates me. Question him all you want there'll be no issue with me. However,
It is fans who dress up a bit of knowledge as coaching fact. They assert if Poch had done X the result would have been Y as if they know the ins and outs of the squad better than the man who works with them day in day out. It's the belief that fans can see things as glaringly obvious but the coach can't. I call it the "Alan Shearer condition" where people sit and pontificate to managers from the comfort of their sofas but when they are called to put their money where their mouth is, they crash and burn and suddenly realise football management is not as easy as they thought it was.
It is the failure to give proper consideration of context when judging Spurs under Poch. You know if Atletico can win the Spanish League and Leicester can win the EPL then Spurs should be winning it too. Then so should Everton, so should Aston Villa, so should frigging Liverpool. But guess what they are not. Therefore even when we finish second with a points total we have never been close to in my nearly 40 years of supporting Spurs, better than it took to win the league the previous season, it is still not considered good enough because he hasn't won a trophy.
It is fans who flip from the ecstatic when we win to the verge of clinical depression when we lose - with nothing in the middle.
It is the lack of respect shown in the tone of some posts for the best coach we have had at this club in years.
There rant over. Perhaps it's my age that I am getting less patient. Believe me I want success as much as anyone.”
I’ve seen this quoted a few times and scrolled back about 10 pages to try and find the original to give it a like, but I can’t find it unfortunately.
Completely agree, even the suggestions from posters saying “levy will stick by him”. Well of f@ckin course he will, he’d have to be a completely bell to put him under any job pressure! He’s done an absolutely ridiculous job for us so far. A little bit of respect people, jeez!
“It's not the questioning of the coach per se for me that is a problem. It is the manner in which it is done that irritates me. Question him all you want there'll be no issue with me. However,
It is fans who dress up a bit of knowledge as coaching fact. They assert if Poch had done X the result would have been Y as if they know the ins and outs of the squad better than the man who works with them day in day out. It's the belief that fans can see things as glaringly obvious but the coach can't. I call it the "Alan Shearer condition" where people sit and pontificate to managers from the comfort of their sofas but when they are called to put their money where their mouth is, they crash and burn and suddenly realise football management is not as easy as they thought it was.
It is the failure to give proper consideration of context when judging Spurs under Poch. You know if Atletico can win the Spanish League and Leicester can win the EPL then Spurs should be winning it too. Then so should Everton, so should Aston Villa, so should frigging Liverpool. But guess what they are not. Therefore even when we finish second with a points total we have never been close to in my nearly 40 years of supporting Spurs, better than it took to win the league the previous season, it is still not considered good enough because he hasn't won a trophy.
It is fans who flip from the ecstatic when we win to the verge of clinical depression when we lose - with nothing in the middle.
It is the lack of respect shown in the tone of some posts for the best coach we have had at this club in years.
There rant over. Perhaps it's my age that I am getting less patient. Believe me I want success as much as anyone.”
I’ve seen this quoted a few times and scrolled back about 10 pages to try and find the original to give it a like, but I can’t find it unfortunately.
Completely agree, even the suggestions from posters saying “levy will stick by him”. Well of f@ckin course he will, he’d have to be a completely bell to put him under any job pressure! He’s done an absolutely ridiculous job for us so far. A little bit of respect people, jeez!
Dont get me wrong, Im pretty much in your boat and considering Ive grown up watching managers such as Gross, Ardiles, Graham, its gradually become more and more enjoyable - from Jol, to Redknapp to Poch. But that doesn't shy away from him needing to win things to create a genuine legacy - that doesn't mean to say Im not enjoying what Poch has created but in todays' footballing world being a big club means fundamentally you will have to eventually deliver more than that....
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
Who cares about being a big club? I just want to support my club small or big.
Jamie Redknapp thinks he is a big man ... but the reality is that he is just as small as Charlie Adams
JerusalemMan
Chris Perry
Eventually, yes.
But in this climate and with our recent history and position, I think we should not have the expectation of that deliverance right now. The hope of glory, yes of course we should.
And in five years we should be looking back at having won things. But right now, I think we Spurs fans should be enjoying the ride and marvelling at our rise.
Who cares about being a big club? We are a big club - hence why we need to win things. You know that guy who used to be our manager, the best and most heralded we've ever had - Bill Nic right? What did he say:
“If you don’t win anything, you have had a bad season.”
“Spurs have got to be the best in the land, not the second best.”
Thats the bar that he set, that is also the bar Poch has quite clearly set himself when you hear him talk he always goes on about winning the title and CL....