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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

DubaiSpur said:
The first time we got into the CL, we were arguably even more inexperienced, and we were up against the reigning champions of Europe, among other teams. Didn't stop us playing without fear, in an attacking manner filled with vim and verve that puts our current limpness and turgidity to shame.

Of course, systems and times differ, so inferring too much from that isn't particularly useful. But 'inexeperience' didn't stop us shocking Europe last time, and it shouldn't be an excuse for looking like eleven terrified, uncoordinated amateurs when playing at Wembley.
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I think shock is an apt word, not much was expected, whereas this time we're expected to get out of a very equal group. Any if the teams in our group could win it our finish last, that's how tight it is.
As a PL team there's no divine right for us to win this group despite what the press would have you believe
 
DubaiSpur said:
The first time we got into the CL, we were arguably even more inexperienced, and we were up against the reigning champions of Europe, among other teams. Didn't stop us playing without fear, in an attacking manner filled with vim and verve that puts our current limpness and turgidity to shame.

Of course, systems and times differ, so inferring too much from that isn't particularly useful. But 'inexperience' didn't stop us shocking Europe last time, and it shouldn't be an excuse for looking like eleven terrified, uncoordinated amateurs when playing at Wembley.
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Exactly and that is why I am tinkled off. Even the first time we got in the Europa in the 21st century under Jol, we played much better! We have been crap in Europe IMHO under Poch.
 
Spurs7891 said:
Don't think Pochettino has faced problems like now which is struggling to score goals and winning matches.
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No he has been a manager for 7 years ish...

He has managed 3 clubs and we're the biggest by some way with the biggest expectation

I'm sure he had massive problems at espanyol as they were getting relegated

But I agree the problems he is currently exoerincing will be new as he has never been at this level before with these expectations
 
DubaiSpur said:
The first time we got into the CL, we were arguably even more inexperienced, and we were up against the reigning champions of Europe, among other teams. Didn't stop us playing without fear, in an attacking manner filled with vim and verve that puts our current limpness and turgidity to shame.

Of course, systems and times differ, so inferring too much from that isn't particularly useful. But 'inexeperience' didn't stop us shocking Europe last time, and it shouldn't be an excuse for looking like eleven terrified, uncoordinated amateurs when playing at Wembley.
Click to expand...

I honestly think, certainly in the opening 3 games of that group that teams massively underestimated us. Bremen, Twente & Inter all thought they were better than us. They opened up and attacked us which left massive space in behind which we exploited magnificently.
This time the group is evenly matched, none of the teams has given us much space and we've fallen into the trap of being hit on the break.
I also think the "pressing" tactic is less effective in Europe than in the PL. Even in the EL under Poch we've not looked as defensively secure as we do in the PL. That being said, its the way we play, we have to accept and if anything, simply improve at how effectively we execute the plan.
 
Every team who challenges for both the PL and CL, takes years to get used to it, see Man U, Arsenal, City etc. It's a long learning curve.
Leicester are doing what we did under Harry; prioritise the CL over the PL, and have one good go at it.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Every team who challenges for both the PL and CL, takes years to get used to it, see Man U, Arsenal, City etc. It's a long learning curve.
Leicester are doing what we did under Harry; prioritise the CL over the PL, and have one good go at it.
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I'm not so sure we did prioritise the CL. As you say, I think the club as a whole struggled to get to grips with playing Real Madrid on a Tuesday but then having to get up for playing Wolves on a Saturday. Emirates Marketing Project took our place in the top 4 but they spent close to £200m IIRC on Silva, Toure, Dzeko, Tevez etc.
 
tynesidespur said:
I honestly think, certainly in the opening 3 games of that group that teams massively underestimated us. Bremen, Twente & Inter all thought they were better than us. They opened up and attacked us which left massive space in behind which we exploited magnificently.
This time the group is evenly matched, none of the teams has given us much space and we've fallen into the trap of being hit on the break.
I also think the "pressing" tactic is less effective in Europe than in the PL. Even in the EL under Poch we've not looked as defensively secure as we do in the PL. That being said, its the way we play, we have to accept and if anything, simply improve at how effectively we execute the plan.
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In my view pressing in European matches is just as effective as the PL but we are not really doing it. Leverkusen gave us a lesson in how to press high in that last match and we literally fell to pieces as a result. It works.

My take on it is that our poor showings are really a result of our young and inexperienced side, and to some extent the manager. When the wheels starting coming off in the last CL match even as early as the 1st minute, they had no clue how to regroup and respond. The pressure on the ball Leverkusen applied was superb there is no denying it. And as a result Spurs made wrong decision after wrong decision on the ball ad nauseum. We were making so many mistakes we were drowning in them. We couldn't get our head above water for more than a few seconds at a time before we were in trouble again (ok I'm done with the the drowning analogy ;)) .

That was the time for cool and experienced heads to do the right thing, which often was to launch it up to their corner flag, but we had too few of those on the pitch to call on and those few on the pitch were actually panicking as well.
 
Rorschach said:
In my view pressing in European matches is just as effective as the PL but we are not really doing it. Leverkusen gave us a lesson in how to press high in that last match and we literally fell to pieces as a result. It works.

My take on it is that our poor showings are really a result of our young and inexperienced side, and to some extent the manager. When the wheels starting coming off in the last CL match even as early as the 1st minute, they had no clue how to regroup and respond. The pressure on the ball Leverkusen applied was superb there is no denying it. And as a result Spurs made wrong decision after wrong decision on the ball ad nauseum. We were making so many mistakes we were drowning in them. We couldn't get our head above water for more than a few seconds at a time before we were in trouble again (ok I'm done with the the drowning analogy ;)) .

That was the time for cool and experienced heads to do the right thing, which often was to launch it up to their corner flag, but we had too few of those on the pitch to call on and those few on the pitch were actually panicking as well.
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Yes, Leverkusen were very good at pressing us into mistakes but I didn't think they were particularly good once they had the ball either. A really good team would've exploited our shortcomings and won by 3 or 4 goals.

Re experienced heads - yes cut out the mistakes but I think launching to the corner flag is the exact OPPOSITE to what Poch wants. He wants us to be confident in possession, use Lloris to start attacks again and keep possession rather than launch aimlessly down field. What I think is going wrong at the moment is that when the centre-halves split there isn't an outball into midfield. Dier was coming between the centre-halves last season, that allowed the FBs to push up as wingers, one of the front 3 to drop into midfield as an option or Dembele as the other deep lying DM to offer for the ball. Between Dier & the centre-halves a bit of movement/passing created an opportunity to play out and open the pitch as you could play around opposition forwards who pressed high as you had a numerical advantage in a deep area.

That is now NOT happening with Wanyama as the deep lying DM as he isn't coming between the centre-halves to pick up the ball. Consequently we have 7-8 players asking for risky passes forwards from the centre-halves, players who are often tightly marked meaning we are turning over possession cheaply when we go forwards or worse, the centre-halves get caught when trying to work angles from the GK. Leverkusen had our number very early on at Wembley as you could see they put 2 forwards on the centre-halves and a man on the DM so that there was no short out ball on Wed for Lloris. All that left was diagonal chips to the full backs/wide men which were easily intercepted or attacks blocked off.

For me the time to "launch it" was to work a bit of possession between the centre-halves up to half way. Then draw our fullbacks a little deeper, play the ball to them and then play percentage balls into Janssen and look for knock-downs/runners in and around him. Its a bit agricultural but it seemed to be the only time we had any effectiveness and if you can't play your normal game you have to go with the most effective back-up tactic. Its along the same lines as what you're saying but this way you are playing with better percentages as you're controlling the how and when the ball is played forwards so it won't come straight back at you.

That was quite a long ramble...!
 
tynesidespur said:
Yes, Leverkusen were very good at pressing us into mistakes but I didn't think they were particularly good once they had the ball either. A really good team would've exploited our shortcomings and won by 3 or 4 goals.

Re experienced heads - yes cut out the mistakes but I think launching to the corner flag is the exact OPPOSITE to what Poch wants. He wants us to be confident in possession, use Lloris to start attacks again and keep possession rather than launch aimlessly down field. What I think is going wrong at the moment is that when the centre-halves split there isn't an outball into midfield. Dier was coming between the centre-halves last season, that allowed the FBs to push up as wingers, one of the front 3 to drop into midfield as an option or Dembele as the other deep lying DM to offer for the ball. Between Dier & the centre-halves a bit of movement/passing created an opportunity to play out and open the pitch as you could play around opposition forwards who pressed high as you had a numerical advantage in a deep area.

That is now NOT happening with Wanyama as the deep lying DM as he isn't coming between the centre-halves to pick up the ball. Consequently we have 7-8 players asking for risky passes forwards from the centre-halves, players who are often tightly marked meaning we are turning over possession cheaply when we go forwards or worse, the centre-halves get caught when trying to work angles from the GK. Leverkusen had our number very early on at Wembley as you could see they put 2 forwards on the centre-halves and a man on the DM so that there was no short out ball on Wed for Lloris. All that left was diagonal chips to the full backs/wide men which were easily intercepted or attacks blocked off.

For me the time to "launch it" was to work a bit of possession between the centre-halves up to half way. Then draw our fullbacks a little deeper, play the ball to them and then play percentage balls into Janssen and look for knock-downs/runners in and around him. Its a bit agricultural but it seemed to be the only time we had any effectiveness and if you can't play your normal game you have to go with the most effective back-up tactic. Its along the same lines as what you're saying but this way you are playing with better percentages as you're controlling the how and when the ball is played forwards so it won't come straight back at you.

That was quite a long ramble...!
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I don;t have time to respond to all this but I agree with most of it. My main point was pressing does work (e.g. In the last match) and there is a time an place to kick the ball away. I might come back to this later :)
 
Yeh I think/know you are right. Just this whole view he has "Spurs fans demand more" like he is trying to raise tension
 
Poch doesn't know how to attack. He knows how to press and retain possession which is kinda like an advanced form of defending, but he relies on players individual instincts and talent to crack the defence open.

Right now the players can't find each other and they don't have set plays to fall back on.

Sent from my SM-T819Y using Fapatalk
 
metalgear said:
Poch doesn't know how to attack. He knows how to press and retain possession which is kinda like an advanced form of defending, but he relies on players individual instincts and talent to crack the defence open.

Right now the players can't find each other and they don't have set plays to fall back on.

Sent from my SM-T819Y using Fapatalk
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Interesting thoughts. Worthy of discussion from others imo.

I feel the sentiment but need convincing of your point: would you describe Guardiola in the same way?
 
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