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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Totally agree with BOL.
There's some in the squad we've out grown,
Mason and Carroll.
there's some satisfied with where we are and shouldn't be, Jan and Eriksen.
there's 1 or 2 that seem a bit lost by it all, chadli and son, understandably for son.
 
When I say bad characters, I just mean players that don't act like winners. And the way I see that is by taking responsibility on the pitch, and not making stupid mistakes because the pressure is now on, and because we are now in the business end of the season.

So I'm seperating by performance level noticeably dropping in the business end alongside what we can make out of a player's character. It transparently tinklees Dier off when he loses, or when Spurs get called soft, because he knows he isn't. I'm sure it hurts someone like Eriksen, but I also get the sense that he's quite a measured guy and probably isn't totally consumed by winning, like it's an obsession. We can't have a team of nasty bastards, but I don't think we can continue to rely on players that are happy with the bear minimum in key positions.

Interesting point re Eriksen. When he is interviewed he comes across as distant, but focused, borderline psychotic actually (joke). I think that's what gives him an ice-cool edge when taking free kicks etc. However I have to say that Eriksen's attempts at "tackling" do my head in because they look to me like token efforts to dangle a leg. I've seen the stats that he's up there with the highest numbers in the team/league in terms of regaining possession/interceptions. I've no doubt there is truth in that but I feel that is inspite of rather than because of his tackling style. When you have the likes of Alli, Kane & Lamela pressing hard you always get the feeling the guy in possession will have a very difficult job to either dribble past or find an outball/pass. When Eriksen does it if his dangled leg catches the ball we can break otherwise the guy will bulldoze his way past him with barely a flicker from Eriksen. I think that is his major problem - he doesn't take it as a personal affront that the guy has beaten him - which you need to have in a winning team. I think he shrugs and thinks "ah well, maybe next time". His biggest strength - coolness/calmness which gives him a ruthless finishing streak is also his biggest weakness.
 
poch deserves some blame too imo.

He deserves it for bringing on Chadli for Walker at 2-1 with an extra man. The opposite of a calm. measured approach when we had a good 20-25 mins to work the ball around, find space and find an equaliser/winner.

He opened us up and invited them to break on us. Has to be on him as much as the players this time around. He has provided a system and a way to work to get results out of these players this season but equally he destroyed that shape in the last 30 mins yesterday.
 
Interesting point re Eriksen. When he is interviewed he comes across as distant, but focused, borderline psychotic actually (joke). I think that's what gives him an ice-cool edge when taking free kicks etc. However I have to say that Eriksen's attempts at "tackling" do my head in because they look to me like token efforts to dangle a leg. I've seen the stats that he's up there with the highest numbers in the team/league in terms of regaining possession/interceptions. I've no doubt there is truth in that but I feel that is inspite of rather than because of his tackling style. When you have the likes of Alli, Kane & Lamela pressing hard you always get the feeling the guy in possession will have a very difficult job to either dribble past or find an outball/pass. When Eriksen does it if his dangled leg catches the ball we can break otherwise the guy will bulldoze his way past him with barely a flicker from Eriksen. I think that is his major problem - he doesn't take it as a personal affront that the guy has beaten him - which you need to have in a winning team. I think he shrugs and thinks "ah well, maybe next time". His biggest strength - coolness/calmness which gives him a ruthless finishing streak is also his biggest weakness.

The thing is, I don't actually think you can expect too much more from Eriksen; I certainly don't. When we bought him, it was with the understanding that we were buying a lightweight, incisive attacking midfielder, a classic No.10 to conduct play higher up the field while Paulinho, Capoue and co. did the grunt work behind him. Viewed from that angle, he's actually contributed more in terms of pressing and winning the ball than is the standard for players of his type, who tend to be lightweight and uninterested in defensive contributions.

He runs much harder than most stereotypical No.10s, he closes down more, and he intercepts more. Is that good enough for our style of play? Probably not, given how lightweight he is in the tackle (as you rightly point out), which is a definite disadvantage when you're building a team of eleven players with roughly shared defensive responsibilities. But is that a damn sight more than most No.10s? Certainly; better than Ozil, Mata,Fabregas, you name it.

He is what he is, imo. If we want to improve on him, which we will probably have to consider at some stage of our path towards being a genuinely strong team that can win things, then we have to consider that, for all his faults, he does more than what is expected of him; it's just that what he does is still not good enough defensively for the relentless system Poch envisions. But if we bring in a more defensively sound CAM/No.10 (like Siggy, for example), we have to weigh whether he would be as quick on the move, with as keen an eye for the long pass and with as good a finish as Eriksen possesses. He's actually turned out to be pretty crap at set-pieces this season, but he has other qualities, for sure.
 
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Was surprised we let Sig go when Poch arrived, but I think he's probably a player that does well when the pressure is off and goes into his shell when the pressure is on. Swansea is likely a good club for him in that regard.
 
The thing is, I don't actually think you can expect too much more from Eriksen; I certainly don't. When we bought him, it was with the understanding that we were buying a lightweight, incisive attacking midfielder, a classic No.10 to conduct play higher up the field while Paulinho, Capoue and co. did the grunt work behind him. Viewed from that angle, he's actually contributed more in terms of pressing and winning the ball than is the standard for players of his type, who tend to be lightweight and uninterested in defensive contributions.

He runs much harder than most stereotypical No.10s, he closes down more, and he intercepts more. Is that good enough for our style of play? Probably not, given how lightweight he is in the tackle (as you rightly point out), which is a definite disadvantage when you're building a team of eleven players with roughly shared defensive responsibilities. But is that a damn sight more than most No.10s? Certainly; better than Ozil, Mata,Fabregas, you name it.

He is what he is, imo. If we want to improve on him, which we will probably have to consider at some stage of our path towards being a genuinely strong team that can win things, then we have to consider that, for all his faults, he does more than what is expected of him; it's just that what he does is still not good enough defensively for the relentless system Poch envisions. But if we bring in a more defensively sound CAM/No.10 (like Siggy, for example), we have to weigh whether he would be as quick on the move, with as keen an eye for the long pass and with as good a finish as Eriksen possesses. He's actually turned out to be pretty crap at set-pieces this season, but he has other qualities, for sure.

Yes I don't disagree with anything you say there. I probably sound like a moaney to$$er but I just have to admit that it irks me to see those half-hearted challenges which to some extent are masked by interception stats. He is way better defensively than any you mention there but on the flip side the likes of Willian and Sanchez do put the graft in as well. Its one I have to accept and its not the main issue in the team, just a minor gripe. The thing is when you get 3 or 4 off their game and offering token gesture tackles you end up on the end of a 5-1 scoreline. We can't have many (if any) passengers in a system like ours.
 
Yes I don't disagree with anything you say there. I probably sound like a moaney to$$er but I just have to admit that it irks me to see those half-hearted challenges which to some extent are masked by interception stats. He is way better defensively than any you mention there but on the flip side the likes of Willian and Sanchez do put the graft in as well. Its one I have to accept and its not the main issue in the team, just a minor gripe. The thing is when you get 3 or 4 off their game and offering token gesture tackles you end up on the end of a 5-1 scoreline. We can't have many (if any) passengers in a system like ours.

No, I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree either; those half-hearted legs he sticks out are definitely annoying, more so when we're struggling and need a bit of bite. But the fact that he gets into the positions where he can make weak challenges like that puts him above a lot of similar players, imv; even against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, it shouldn't have been him tracking back all the way into the box to make that challenge on Sissoko for the penalty, but he did it anyway.

Was surprised we let Sig go when Poch arrived, but I think he's probably a player that does well when the pressure is off and goes into his shell when the pressure is on. Swansea is likely a good club for him in that regard.

Hah! No different from a lot of our present bunch, then. He'll fit right in. ;)

Nah, I don't think he's that mentally compromised. He was a big part of 2012-2013, even as he struggled to adapt to playing on the wing to accommodate Bale in the middle; but he still put in decent performances, some class goals and through-balls, and grafted his arse off in every game.
 
When I say bad characters, I just mean players that don't act like winners. And the way I see that is by taking responsibility on the pitch, and not making stupid mistakes because the pressure is now on, and because we are now in the business end of the season.

Lamela for example, noticeably stepped up when the league title was in sight. He'd always been a hard runner throughout the season, but you could see in the last few weeks, he believed. When other players didn't want the ball, he did, he tried to make something happen.

Toby, on the other hand has made a number of errors in the last few weeks. Poor decision making. Stepping up when he should be dropping back, not being tight to obvious danger players, not clearing the lines when he should. Very noticeably performance dropped at the business end of the season. A shame because he was such a rock for most of it.

And then I look at players like Dier and Alli (and actually, Bentaleb. Despite him being pretty terrible this season as he was never able to pick up a run of form when he did get on the pitch). They have a bit of a nasty streak in them. Rose has it too. Nice boys off the pitch I'm sure but on it, you can tell that for the next 95 minutes, they hate the opposition. And they hate the opposition so much that they aren't going to let something as stupid and irrelevant as 'pressure' allow them to stop giving the absolute best version of themselves for the duration of the match. But I look at Walker, who despite being really talented looks a bit ponderous, like he's control is always waiting to let him down, like he's going to have a bad reaction should things not go his way (as his Twitter outburst proved a couple of years ago).

So I'm seperating by performance level noticeably dropping in the business end alongside what we can make out of a player's character. It transparently tinklees Dier off when he loses, or when Spurs get called soft, because he knows he isn't. I'm sure it hurts someone like Eriksen, but I also get the sense that he's quite a measured guy and probably isn't totally consumed by winning, like it's an obsession. We can't have a team of nasty bastards, but I don't think we can continue to rely on players that are happy with the bear minimum in key positions.

And look at Leicester. Winners every single one of them. Vardy. Drinkwater. Morgan. Huth. They weren't going to let pressure get in the way because they thought they fully deserved it. I'm sure they had a class clown in Fuchs, a maverick like Mahrez and Albrighton who I assume is quite a nice chap in the Ryan Mason mould, but they had enough winners in the team that meant that when the pressure was on, they looked more like champions than ever. The opposite happened with us.

And I don't think it was tactics. The tactics got us to where we were, and I think Poch is the closest to a manager with a winning mentality that we'd had in my Spurs supporting life. Watch his interview again. It transparently tinklees him off, but he doesn't get overly emotional like Sherwood after the 4-0 Chelsea loss (although I agreed with Sherwood at the time!). Poch is tinkleed off but very calmly says he's got good information about what decisions to make in the summer. He's given the players the chance to prove themselves to him, and some of them have let themselves down. He's disappointed, he probably likes a lot of them on a personal level, but there won't be any excuse for mental weakness. They will be gone.

I should also say, we scored the most, conceded the least, had the best shots for and against statistics. The system was working very well, but the amount of games we absolutely dominated but didn't win was ridiculous and again that lies with the players IMO. Everton home and away. Arsenal away. We absolutely played them off the park but didn't kill them off, quite bizarrely so in fact given our dominance.

Excellent post.

With reference to Toby, I actually align that drop-off with Verts returning. I think we got a little less reliable when Verts came back? Not sure why, not sure I am even correct, but that is how it felt to me. A little more dithering back there, a little too much 'on the ball in stupid places'. One thing with Wimmer and Toby was that the roles were exceptionally clear. I actually think Verts cost us as we went into these final games. Having said that, the midfield was depleted, and it is unfair to judge on that basis. But we felt more solid with Wimmer? And I think Toby got very very comfortable being the 'lead'...
 
Stupidly too. How hard has that come back to bite us now.:(
Indeed, I was annoyed at the time with Alli's little punch and the Chelsea hacking, even more so now.
Yes I know it was good to see they will stand up and not be bullied... but it was stupid. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
 
Indeed, I was annoyed at the time with Alli's little punch and the Chelsea hacking, even more so now.
Yes I know it was good to see they will stand up and not be bullied... but it was stupid. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

I do wish the 'fight' had carried through to Saudi Sportswashing Machine :-(
 
I think this is overlooked .. w/Alli & Dembele for last 3 games, anyone really doubt we would have got at least 1 more point?

Poch needs to point it out to them clearly ...
I'm sure he has, but I doubt even he would have believed the complete lack of effort from some of the the players in the last few matches.
 
He deserves it for bringing on Chadli for Walker at 2-1 with an extra man. The opposite of a calm. measured approach when we had a good 20-25 mins to work the ball around, find space and find an equaliser/winner.

He opened us up and invited them to break on us. Has to be on him as much as the players this time around. He has provided a system and a way to work to get results out of these players this season but equally he destroyed that shape in the last 30 mins yesterday.
Walker almost had his leg broken by Mitrovič. It's no surprise he came off. You can't really blame Poch for that sub. However, he did look a bit too relaxed on the bench in the last couple of games. Much less in-game coaching going on. That I found somewhat weird.

In any case, on to next season. We must look at this season as a building block, else we'll get all worked up for nothing.
 
However, he did look a bit too relaxed on the bench in the last couple of games. Much less in-game coaching going on.

I console myself after the abomination that was yesterday by the fact the result hurt our pride more than the club's long term objectives unlike our previous failures to finish above Arsenal in 06, 12 and 13. The other London clubs may laugh but at the end of the day we are in the Champs League proper unlike Chelscum and WHAM. Oh and Arsenal fans may have a laugh at our expense but in the cold light of day it is only a temporary respite from the real issue of this year -which is their failure to even come close to winning a league title. Those questions are bound to re-surface. We should also bear in mind that after the previous times we were pipped by Arsenal, our managers either left or lost key players. This time we have signed up our manager for another 5 years and hopefully we will hang on to our young stars and add to them. Plenty to be positive about guys.
 
looking back at yesterday, we can all say we've got the poch travesty out of our system now, we now know we can never be that complacent, maybe this was a wake up call for our great manager too, this is what Tottenham can and will do.
An unexpected finish to an unexpected season
 
Stupidly too. How hard has that come back to bite us now.:(

My thoughts as well, we lost in and we have paid the price, it was not good to see ( whatever some fans said) and its something I hope we do not see again. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive but it has to be controlled and we did not do that.
 
My thoughts as well, we lost in and we have paid the price, it was not good to see ( whatever some fans said) and its something I hope we do not see again. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive but it has to be controlled and we did not do that.

Mate...part of learning how to fight is having a fight in the first place. We will undoubtably learn.
 
Mate...part of learning how to fight is having a fight in the first place. We will undoubtably learn.

I agree everything is a learning process and ALL the best teams have to do that all the time. Fergie never took his eye off doing that and I expect Poch who has now seen how mentally weak some of the players are will do the same. His after match interview was spot on, its not tiredness more a mental weakness in some of the players and he strikes me as not a manager who will suffer players who do not have that in their make up. The one thing he has to sort is getting a leader in the centre of the pitch who will rattle a few cages ( of his own players) we lack that and having a captain as goal keeper is not doing the job.
 
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