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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Disagree with the last part mate, at different times we had ChadLi, Eriksen and Dembele running in from midfield. Pace and width usually comes from our full backs but rose was not playing today and I think we missed him.

I didn't see a lot of penetrating runs from deep, no one seemed to be stretching the play, dragging defenders away, creating space, making themselves available for quick one two's to gain yards further up the pitch etc.

It's about time we stopped relying on FB's to provide pace, it needs to come from central areas as well, for me what's the point of inverted wingers if they don't have pace to cut in and shoot. Pace is even more important in the middle where there's less space.
 
I would agree - definitely think this guy Harris is way OTT

Having said that he does raise some points about the lack of flexibility and the apparent low impact of key coaching interventions - especially the pressing game.

Look at Utd pressing before Bentaleb's mistake... each player is perfectly positioned; that has been coached into them by Van Gaal. How often do you see us so solid?

Of course, it could be that the quality of players is that much better and they are more capable of doing this than we are.. but in that case, why persist with it?

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I disagree.... I think we pressed them just as well as they pressed us at the weekend (50% possession each and very few chances created backs this up). Also looking at that picture I feel that we are in a better attacking position than Man Utd are in a defensive position. Bentaleb has 2 easy passing options available to him, had he successfully completed the pass to either of those players we would've right on the front foot with good attacking numbers. The ball wide to the left would've left us in acres of space, with Man Utd's central players having to get across leaving space for our central runners and the ball just forward of square to the right (the better ball IMO) would've resulted in us having a clear attacking 3 against 2 on our right hand side.
 
True. ManU only had 1 shots on target, compared with 4 on target by us. This was a match we should have won ! But Pochettino again failed to beat a big team away ! Remember, we got thrashed by ManCity, Chel53a and ManU away last season. Not sure if Pochettino has the right mentality and strategy to beat big teams away.[/QUOTE]

ERM.......what strategy would you like to see other than restrict the opposition from shooting and get shots away ourselves?
 
Thought we played well in patches, was a bit early in the season for a big game.
Dominated early should have scored
Silly pass was utd only time they really got through us
Pressured late on for an equaliser ball just didnt fall.

Walker learnt from last year and dominated Young
Dier did well playing out of position

Bentaleb was way off the pace

Absolutely nothing you can judge from that game, stoke will be a far better show if we can/cant break teams down
 
I didn't see a lot of penetrating runs from deep, no one seemed to be stretching the play, dragging defenders away, creating space, making themselves available for quick one two's to gain yards further up the pitch etc.

It's about time we stopped relying on FB's to provide pace, it needs to come from central areas as well, for me what's the point of inverted wingers if they don't have pace to cut in and shoot. Pace is even more important in the middle where there's less space.

Plus there's little point in a fullback bombing upfield with it glued to his boot, only to find himself having to hold the ball up on the edge of the area waiting for his teammates to arrive (or, if you're Walker, not bothering to wait and just crossing it anyway to nobody there).

The squad isn't complete yet, so my judgment is being firmly reserved for now, but I will admit to a slight, nagging concern that we may find ourselves trying to fight last year's war in a sense.

Not to wish ill on our efforts, and far from it, but should it turn out after the end of the month that we haven't reached that critical level of improvement, relative not only to the usual top 4 rivals, but the other upstarts as well (and I think West Ham's performance at the Effeminates yesterday was a definite shot across the bows there), then it's not inconceivable that Pochettino might find himself in for an unhappy Christmas. The best laid schemes of mice and men, and all that.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that, and we are keeping up with the Joneses (not to mention the Monks and the Bilićs and the Pardews).
 
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I thought in the first 15 minutes or so we were very good in the final third and the link up play between Eriksen and Kane particularly good. However, we conceded a soft goal, Man U pushed a man more tightly onto Eriksen, and our pressing slacked off a bit - and we lost momentum.

I have a number of concerns about Poch and his tactics , many of which were shared about AVB:

1. Possession is all very well, but you have to do something with it. If, in maintaining possession, you allow the other team to set their defence, then you end up playing in front of well organised teams with little goal threat.

2. A pressing game is all very well, but it compresses space going forward for both the attacking and defending team, which creates its own challenges. It also leaves loads of space behind the defence.

3. So if you are going to play possession football with a high press in 4-2-3-1 (and sometimes 3-1-5(4)-1(2) when attacking) successfully you need to do a number of things.

- Maintain the press, and when you are unable to maintain the press, drop off accordingly. Otherwise teams wait until you are tired and punish you over the top and on the counter. This is where we lose to weaker teams, as it is the obvious way to counter the high press.
- Play the ball forward early whenever possible, otherwise you are endlessly recycling possession with no end product until you lose the ball.

4. This system requires key players, including:

Players with vision and technique in deeper positions who can pass forwards early
Some pace further forward to make the runs and find space -and to exploit situations where the ball is turned over from the high press.
Some pace at the back, preferably in the CBs at least. To cover the space in behind when defending counters.
10 very fit outfield players for the high press.
A midfielder who is positionally aware and can protect the CBs when the full backs push on.
Players who have a very good touch and are very comfortable in possession as we are going to get the ball in tight spaces a lot.
One tricky player (at least) who can dribble past a player - to make some space.
A keeper who can sweep behind, with good passing distribution, and who doesn't panic with the ball at their feet.
And finally a CF who can occupy two defenders with their physical presence and run the line on their own.

So we have some of these, but lack others.

We need a manager with flexible tactics too.

It is difficult, if not impossible to maintain an effective press for 90 minutes. So we need to adapt as players get tired.
Against some teams that also play a pressing game it might be better to play on the counter.
Horror of horrors, sometimes lumping it in the box and hoping for a knockdown is an effective tactic -especially when you have an aerial threat like Kane.

So I'm not sure of Poch is adaptable enough. Or whether he is a bit too safety first minded - and unwilling to allow us to take risks with the ball or formation when we get further forward.
 
Plainly not true, we've beaten Liverpool, Ar5ena1 and Manu Utd twice all within the last 5 seasons.

I wouldn't class the Moyes United team as 'a big team' they lost quite a few games at home that season and were well out of the reckoning. Same as when we beat Liverpool at Anfield 2-0 with VDV scoring (if I remember correctly). Other than that, we have the AVB win at Old Trafford and the 3-2 win at the Emirates and that is it.
 
I thought in the first 15 minutes or so we were very good in the final third and the link up play between Eriksen and Kane particularly good. However, we conceded a soft goal, Man U pushed a man more tightly onto Eriksen, and our pressing slacked off a bit - and we lost momentum.

I have a number of concerns about Poch and his tactics , many of which were shared about AVB:

1. Possession is all very well, but you have to do something with it. If, in maintaining possession, you allow the other team to set their defence, then you end up playing in front of well organised teams with little goal threat.

2. A pressing game is all very well, but it compresses space going forward for both the attacking and defending team, which creates its own challenges. It also leaves loads of space behind the defence.

3. So if you are going to play possession football with a high press in 4-2-3-1 (and sometimes 3-1-5(4)-1(2) when attacking) successfully you need to do a number of things.

- Maintain the press, and when you are unable to maintain the press, drop off accordingly. Otherwise teams wait until you are tired and punish you over the top and on the counter. This is where we lose to weaker teams, as it is the obvious way to counter the high press.
- Play the ball forward early whenever possible, otherwise you are endlessly recycling possession with no end product until you lose the ball.

4. This system requires key players, including:

Players with vision and technique in deeper positions who can pass forwards early
Some pace further forward to make the runs and find space -and to exploit situations where the ball is turned over from the high press.
Some pace at the back, preferably in the CBs at least. To cover the space in behind when defending counters.
10 very fit outfield players for the high press.
A midfielder who is positionally aware and can protect the CBs when the full backs push on.
Players who have a very good touch and are very comfortable in possession as we are going to get the ball in tight spaces a lot.
One tricky player (at least) who can dribble past a player - to make some space.
A keeper who can sweep behind, with good passing distribution, and who doesn't panic with the ball at their feet.
And finally a CF who can occupy two defenders with their physical presence and run the line on their own.

So we have some of these, but lack others.

We need a manager with flexible tactics too.

It is difficult, if not impossible to maintain an effective press for 90 minutes. So we need to adapt as players get tired.
Against some teams that also play a pressing game it might be better to play on the counter.
Horror of horrors, sometimes lumping it in the box and hoping for a knockdown is an effective tactic -especially when you have an aerial threat like Kane.

So I'm not sure of Poch is adaptable enough. Or whether he is a bit too safety first minded - and unwilling to allow us to take risks with the ball or formation when we get further forward.
Very good post and agree with most of it.
But, and you knew there was one, the squad is being cleared to make room for the type of players we need. Hopefully they are players who will address these issues. IMV that's why we aren't going scatter gun in the market.
 
Very good post and agree with most of it.
But, and you knew there was one, the squad is being cleared to make room for the type of players we need. Hopefully they are players who will address these issues. IMV that's why we aren't going scatter gun in the market.

Fair point. It is shame that better accountability is difficult. Ideally, Poch would get the type of players he wants and we could judge him accordingly. Unfortunately, other factors - competition in the transfer market, the actions of other executives and stakeholders (including Levy), means that we rarely get a clear line of sight on the manager, his actions, and the results linked to those actions, making it difficult to assess his performance and/or hold him accountable.
 
Fair point. It is shame that better accountability is difficult. Ideally, Poch would get the type of players he wants and we could judge him accordingly. Unfortunately, other factors - competition in the transfer market, the actions of other executives and stakeholders (including Levy), means that we rarely get a clear line of sight on the manager, his actions, and the results linked to those actions, making it difficult to assess his performance and/or hold him accountable.
Probably the same for most managers now. Only the really top teams get what they want.
 
i have always believed that poch is just too young and inexperienced to win the EPL. i speculate that he is just stop gap until we build the stadium - and his role now is to build up the young player stock we have, and if he succeeds he continues to be coach when the new stadium arrives.
 
i have always believed that poch is just too young and inexperienced to win the EPL. i speculate that he is just stop gap until we build the stadium - and his role now is to build up the young player stock we have, and if he succeeds he continues to be coach when the new stadium arrives.

I think that the barrier preventing us winning the league is financial rather than the age of our manager.
 
Like Poch, think he's great in some respects but just like last year I am becoming very worried with his inflexibility towards formation. These inverted wingers do not currently suit our team or players and we could be better served to change things up (at least now and again)
 
Like Poch, think he's great in some respects but just like last year I am becoming very worried with his inflexibility towards formation. These inverted wingers do not currently suit our team or players and we could be better served to change things up (at least now and again)
Which is why we're getting players that suit the system, rather than adapting the system to the players. Not saying that excuses lack of flexibility, but that's what appears is happening.
 
Like Poch, think he's great in some respects but just like last year I am becoming very worried with his inflexibility towards formation. These inverted wingers do not currently suit our team or players and we could be better served to change things up (at least now and again)

I don't understand where this perceived lack of flexibility comes from. It's a given that every manager has his preferred formation that will be played 9 times out of 10. But for example, he played 4-4-2 against scum at the Emirates last season, he played Soldado and Kane together upfront in quite a few games. He played Lamela and Townsend on the left on occasion and Lennon on the right so ditched the inverted wingers at times. He's played with a DM in Capoue, then without a traditional DM in Mason and Bentaleb, then gone back to a DM with Eric Dier taking up the position. What more tactical flexibility do you want bearing in mind you really do want a consistent style of play and formation running through all of this without it becoming an unholy mess???
 
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