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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Best partnership for me was Modric/Huddlestone. Short lived, but exceptional.

Agree and neither was a stopper/ball winner type. What they both were was talented footballers withintelligence

The best players in those roles don't tack... They intercept and then have the ball on the front foot. They win the ball by seeing the pass. xavi Alonso used to talk about it being the biggest problem in the English game, the joy of the tackle rather than seeing the interception
 
Agree and neither was a stopper/ball winner type. What they both were was talented footballers withintelligence

The best players in those roles don't tack... They intercept and then have the ball on the front foot. They win the ball by seeing the pass. xavi Alonso used to talk about it being the biggest problem in the English game, the joy of the tackle rather than seeing the interception

Will never forget that night in May when them two gave Emirates Marketing Project's midfield a lesson in football in their own back yard 5 years ago, the absolute epitome of controlling a game.
 
Oh it can IMO. Absolutely.Of course, the starting point of the debate would need clarifying; are we talking from August or are we talking pre-Burnley away and the subsequent collapse of Emirates Marketing Project?
I'll take the debate from August.
You screw up if you have the talent, mentality and personnel to BE in the top 4.
It is clear we do not. Yet.
And I take the view that Pochettino is in the full-gory process of deciphering who's worth it and who isn't. I actually think he almost over-achieved at moments this season., but it's clear to me that he wishes to build a platform for future not short-term. That he cares more about leaving a solid platform of work than instant legacy (always admirable IMO).
I will say that it is my opinion that had we scraped top 4 this season, we would've not only got caned in it next season, we'd have been distracted enough to fail to re-qualify. It could've been a regressive move in many ways, with some players lingering who clearly are not what we want, need to are clearly not good enough.
I agree, no games are dead-rubbers, and I guarantee that Poch is using them to isolate his views on one or two players he has been undecided on.
But the truth is we are not good enough for top 4 and probably have not been all season. In fact most here predicted 5th. I certainly 'hoped' we'd be top 4 but never felt we actually would be.

The starting point of the debate, mate, was two games ago: I intended to convey that when I talked about the position we were in heading into those two games, which was a good one. We've royally mucked up the last two games, and with it what could have been a challenge for a CL spot, no matter what our actual prospects in the CL would have been had we made that challenge. That's all, and I've no real opinion on Poch's time in charge beyond that other than that he's done a good job in difficult circumstances and with fudge all by way of support.

I disagree with your position on the effect a CL campaign would have on the team at this stage (in my eyes, it would allow Poch a loooot of leeway to finally demand some support, and substantially reduce Levy's bargaining position with regard to the possibility of sacking Poch if things go south at any point, both good things), but ultimately, as I mentioned before, I don't really care that we won't get it this season, given that a) I never expected it, and b) the progress I've seen has been sufficient to excuse missing a chance to get into the competition.

All I'm saying, however, is that we were in a good position two games ago that has now utterly vanished, and that in my book is screwing up given the opposition we faced and the time we had to prepare for those games. That's it, and who gets the blame for that screw-up is another discussion entirely. But again, I can't see how any other position with respect to the last two games can be successfully defended, imo. That was my initial point, and I think it still stands. :p
 
I'd hazard a guess that Lennon's decline in affecting games coincides with Huddlestone not being in the team.

I make you right, Thudd at his peak could unleash a ball from defending a corner to have Lennon one-on-one with a back-peddling full-back or centre-back out of position and isolated. I'll never forget beating Wigan 9-1. I think Lennon 's performance in that game ended Erik Edmans career ;-)
 
The starting point of the debate, mate, was two games ago: I intended to convey that when I talked about the position we were in heading into those two games, which was a good one. We've royally mucked up the last two games, and with it what could have been a challenge for a CL spot, no matter what our actual prospects in the CL would have been had we made that challenge. That's all, and I've no real opinion on Poch's time in charge beyond that other than that he's done a good job in difficult circumstances and with fudge all by way of support.

I disagree with your position on the effect a CL campaign would have on the team at this stage (in my eyes, it would allow Poch a loooot of leeway to finally demand some support, and substantially reduce Levy's bargaining position with regard to the possibility of sacking Poch if things go south at any point, both good things), but ultimately, as I mentioned before, I don't really care that we won't get it this season, given that a) I never expected it, and b) the progress I've seen has been sufficient to excuse missing a chance to get into the competition.

All I'm saying, however, is that we were in a good position two games ago that has now utterly vanished, and that in my book is screwing up given the opposition we faced and the time we had to prepare for those games. That's it, and who gets the blame for that screw-up is another discussion entirely. But again, I can't see how any other position with respect to the last two games can be successfully defended, imo. That was my initial point, and I think it still stands. :p

We have certainly roostered it up the last two games, and looked pretty poor in doing so. But I don't blame the manager more than the situation personally/cards he was dealt.
 
Well actually there was a lot more galeforce, gloryglory, thfcsteff, the list was substantial.

Delighted to address this (and would welcome any who could possibly be arsed to dig if they wish). When Sherwood was appointed, I had already made comments suggesting that he was someone who was getting the chance due to his connections and that he had also not been, shall we say especially supportive of AVB when queried. Regardless, i vowed (as I do with new managers) to give him my supports. When he started to lose me, was when he showed all the traits of Redknapp multiplied tenfold. His massive fudging north and south was embarrassing AND continually dragged him through cringeworthy self-promotion. He never took one on the chin and always blamed anyone but himself when given the opportunity. One major straw for me, was his 'humorous' claming of Soldado when asked about him an interview. "Que?!!" Really? Pathetic. By the end, with his poison and bile threatening to burn holes through steel floors, I could not wait to see the back of him, and I think he continues to stand as an absolute clown shoe. I admit a slight bias towards Poch simply because he knows how to conduct himself publicly as the manager of this superb football club. With dignity and class, doing his dirty work behind closed doors and padlocking the lips of those who witness his work at very close quarters. Sherwood still can't fudging help himself, bringing us up in his interviews AGAIN this past week. Arsehole.
 
We have certainly roostered it up the last two games, and looked pretty poor in doing so. But I don't blame the manager more than the situation personally/cards he was dealt.

Poch certainly has to accept responsibility for continuing to pick Townsend. I think thats my only major gripe with him. We've been going into matches with an attacking trio comproised of an out of form Chadli, Towsned and Eriksen. We could have been fielding Lamela, Dembele and Erisken. The second line up may not be world class, but I can't imagine it would have performed as dismally as the first.

But Townsend is the most confusing of the lot. He's been simply dreadful for two seasons now and continues to get picked, week in, week out. I can't for the life of me fathom the thinking behind that one.
 
Poch certainly has to accept responsibility for continuing to pick Townsend. I think thats my only major gripe with him. We've been going into matches with an attacking trio comproised of an out of form Chadli, Towsned and Eriksen. We could have been fielding Lamela, Dembele and Erisken. The second line up may not be world class, but I can't imagine it would have performed as dismally as the first.

But Townsend is the most confusing of the lot. He's been simply dreadful for two seasons now and continues to get picked, week in, week out. I can't for the life of me fathom the thinking behind that one.

I remember an ITK (depending on how much weight you place on them) saying that Townsend was one of the strangest players on the books in that he is consistently one of the best players in training, both in terms of ability, influence and effect in training matches, but also in terms of professionalism. Apparently he is also willing to listen to the coaches and seems to take on board what they say and even implements it in training. But apparently come match day it often goes completely out of the window.

I guess if you believe the thing bout always working the hardest in training and playing the best in training and being willing to listen to ideas and work hard to improve his game, it would explain why he gets picked as the coaches feel they should reward training performance and they probably feel they need a longer sample run of games to justify dropping him than maybe some other players.
 
I remember an ITK (depending on how much weight you place on them) saying that Townsend was one of the strangest players on the books in that he is consistently one of the best players in training, both in terms of ability, influence and effect in training matches, but also in terms of professionalism. Apparently he is also willing to listen to the coaches and seems to take on board what they say and even implements it in training. But apparently come match day it often goes completely out of the window.

I guess if you believe the thing bout always working the hardest in training and playing the best in training and being willing to listen to ideas and work hard to improve his game, it would explain why he gets picked as the coaches feel they should reward training performance and they probably feel they need a longer sample run of games to justify dropping him than maybe some other players.

If that's the case, then the regression (Im no tounsend hater, i think there are other places fingers should be point rather than at him) in performances when it comes to actual matches would be a psychological and should be relatively easily overcome.
 
If that's the case, then the regression (Im no tounsend hater, i think there are other places fingers should be point rather than at him) in performances when it comes to actual matches would be a psychological and should be relatively easily overcome.

If that is the case I would assume the coaches continue to pick him in an attempt to get the mental block out of the way due to his potential if "it all clicks"? It's weird that he doesn't seem to have the same block playing for England.
 
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Townsend can be useful when we need an outlet and some pace. It isn't poch's persistent inclusion of Townsend that bothers me, it's what he has Townsend to do and how the play is not set up to support him that confounds me.

The other thing is that Chadli, bentaleb and mason stayed in their usual roles for far too long, with poch seemingly clueless of how to Improve things when their performances visibly waning.
 
So Poch finally realises Mason and Townsend weaken us. Took far far far too long and I've been crying about it for months, but it happened. And we played very very well!! Let's hope neither start another game this season, and Townsend doesn't full stop!!!

Lamela is certainly suspect in a lot of ways, but his movement, his battle, his fight and his moments of class put Townsend to shame!!
 
So Poch finally realises Mason and Townsend weaken us. Took far far far too long and I've been crying about it for months, but it happened. And we played very very well!! Let's hope neither start another game this season, and Townsend doesn't full stop!!!

Lamela is certainly suspect in a lot of ways, but his movement, his battle, his fight and his moments of class put Townsend to shame!!
I think that Mason was probably just being given a rest. Pochettino had spoken about him (and Kane) coming back from England duty very tired because they were both so keen to impress. I think Kane also would've been given a rest if we actually had another striker who we could replace him with (and perhaps if he wasn't on for the golden boot). That being said I thought our midfield had a nice shape yesterday with Paulinho seeming to play in a kind of holding role with Bentaleb going box to box.

While I thought the team played pretty well yesterday (without actually creating too much in the way of chances) I thought that Lamela was by a huge distance our weakest player on the pitch. From where I was sitting (admittedly up in the gods!) he seemed to give the ball away more than any other player from either side and on many occasions it wasn't even when he was under any real pressure. His first half performance was right up there with Capoue's in the first half against Liverpool early this season in the battle for the award of the most inept, embarrassing performance of the season. Second half he improved and was ok, he fluffed a great chance created for him with a brilliant ball in from (I think?) Bentaleb, but he did put Kane in for our 3rd goal that sealed it (after some excellent work from your pet hate Mason) but even with that 'assist' it looked to me like Lamela delayed the ball too long and I think Kane almost strayed offside and had to check his run to ensure that he didn't.
 
I think that Mason was probably just being given a rest. Pochettino had spoken about him (and Kane) coming back from England duty very tired because they were both so keen to impress. I think Kane also would've been given a rest if we actually had another striker who we could replace him with (and perhaps if he wasn't on for the golden boot). That being said I thought our midfield had a nice shape yesterday with Paulinho seeming to play in a kind of holding role with Bentaleb going box to box.

While I thought the team played pretty well yesterday (without actually creating too much in the way of chances) I thought that Lamela was by a huge distance our weakest player on the pitch. From where I was sitting (admittedly up in the gods!) he seemed to give the ball away more than any other player from either side and on many occasions it wasn't even when he was under any real pressure. His first half performance was right up there with Capoue's in the first half against Liverpool early this season in the battle for the award of the most inept, embarrassing performance of the season. Second half he improved and was ok, he fluffed a great chance created for him with a brilliant ball in from (I think?) Bentaleb, but he did put Kane in for our 3rd goal that sealed it (after some excellent work from your pet hate Mason) but even with that 'assist' it looked to me like Lamela delayed the ball too long and I think Kane almost strayed offside and had to check his run to ensure that he didn't.

Considering he's started every single match since post-Stoke revolution, except 2-3 games out injured at the start of January, that's a pretty fair assumption
 
So Poch finally realises Mason and Townsend weaken us. Took far far far too long and I've been crying about it for months, but it happened. And we played very very well!! Let's hope neither start another game this season, and Townsend doesn't full stop!!!

Lamela is certainly suspect in a lot of ways, but his movement, his battle, his fight and his moments of class put Townsend to shame!!

We looked a lot stronger through the middle that's for sure.
 
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