Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

The apologitsts for Soldado just amaze me. He has scored 1 goal from open play this season. To go with his amazing tally of 2 last season. When he does get chances he wastes them without even testing the keeper or hitting the target. When he does not get any service its the all the midfieds fault. Yet Kane is many peoples man on the match! why? did he get better service? no of course not. But he worked hard, and made something for himself. Soldado offered us nothing, not even a pivot to play off. Look how Bony worked our centre halves with his running and positional play.

Soldado is yet another passenger at this point, Along with Lamela ( still have hope for him though ). Cant wait for the day we get rid of nogoaldado.

I cant wait either, I had such high hopes. I will still support him until he goes but its almost funny when he misses now

 

[indianspur]

Personally I thought that Pochettino got schooled tactically by Monk (just as he also did by Warnock a week ago). Yes we won the game, but it was daylight robbery really with us being second best to Swansea for all but the first 20 minutes and last 5 to 10 minutes of the game. We worked hard and kept going which was pleasing, but overall I did not think it was a good performance at all.

You say that you could see Poch's style of play whenever our full backs got forward but it is all too easy for the opposition to stop that happening. Monk did exactly what Warnock did to us last weekend and played two wingers. This kept our fullbacks pinned back and ensured that we had no width when attacking. Their two proper wingers also led to our fullbacks having to take a very wide defensive position that resulted in huge gaps between them and our centre halves and also a large gap between our two centre halves. Swansea were able to capitalise on our stretched defence on numerous occasions with huge space for their creative players to thread the ball through to Bony, who played right on the edge of that 'offside' line and got in behind us a number of times. In the second half it looked as though Pochettino at least tried to counter this by getting Davies to play a bit more narrow but this then opened up acres of space for Routledge.

I didn't see much 'nice passing' from us in the final third'. There was Davies ball into Ericksen in the last minute that I thought was very good from both players (but this was a situation that came about simply due to a poor decision/clearance from Swansea). There was also one very nice attacking break from Spurs in the second half where our players hunted in a pack, turned the ball over around the half way line and then went forward quickly with the ball giving us a three on three against them and almost resulted in a chance being created for us.

I have seen a few people criticising Bentaleb and/or Mason but they are getting completely outumbered in the midfield. The opposition push their fullbacks up (as they don't have to worry about any pace and width from our two wide midfielders) this leaves our two in the midfield outnumbered against the opposition's three. We can counter this by pulling Kane deeper to make up the numbers, but then we have no attacking outlet at all if we win the ball back.

The biggest positive I took out of that game was that it is another away game that we have won where we deserved to get beaten.... Perhaps there is something to that old Napolean quote of "Don't bring me good generals, bring me lucky generals". It seems that perhaps we finally have a lucky general at the helm.... I think I would prefer to have a general who was more 'good' than 'lucky' however.

Good post, I agree with all that.

 

[Robspur12]

If Swansea hadn't played the ball towards bony he wouldn't have had the chance to own anybody. We didn't do that. In fact we haven't been doing that for ages.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

Soldado gets a lot of chances in games which he wastes. I like the bloke but he needs to put more chances away. I think yesterday when our backs are against the wall Soldado needs to go looking for the ball which he has been doing to good effect in recent games. I put yesterday down to being tired as he was playing in Istanbul on Thurs.

 

[Robspur12]

Good post, I agree with all that.

Really? That Poch is a "Lucky General?" He must have swallowed a leprechaun then to have beaten Everton, Southampton and Swansea and drawn at home to Arsenal. As I said this reminds me of the argument that we were rudderless under Tim. Where I agree he has been lucky is against Hull and Villa who put men behind the ball and we needed sendings off to win those games. But against so called ball playing teams we hold our own.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Utd did this for years. Didn't play well and won games with late goals. Fergie was a genius and Poch is lucky. Ok.

BTW. Not comparing Poch to Fergie but more that good coaches and good teams get late winners because they deserve them. It is not luck if you do it regularly. And we are not lucky that Davies made a last ditch tackle or that Hugo makes great saves. Those are our very good players. They are supposed to do that.

 

[glasgowspur]

Soldado gets a lot of chances in games which he wastes. I like the bloke but he needs to put more chances away. I think yesterday when our backs are against the wall Soldado needs to go looking for the ball which he has been doing to good effect in recent games. I put yesterday down to being tired as he was playing in Istanbul on Thurs.

Agree, just seems after building up a bit of momentum one poor game without any real service and he's a donkey again.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Raziel]

Utd did this for years. Didn't play well and won games with late goals. Fergie was a genius and Poch is lucky. Ok.

BTW. Not comparing Poch to Fergie but more that good coaches and good teams get late winners because they deserve them. It is not luck if you do it regularly. And we are not lucky that Davies made a last ditch tackle or that Hugo makes great saves. Those are our very good players. They are supposed to do that.

Mate, lets be clear .. its never all one or the other

To Poch's credit

- Set piece where we pulled the defenders forward to give Kane room worked
- Davies was heavily involved in the press than led to turnover to Eriksen scoring
- Our fitness probably has a bit to do with our ability to score late goals

The problem I have is

- Swansea were struggling with anything aerial (see Kane's chance later in game), they had been abused by Andy Carroll last game out, we got the early goal from exactly that play, yet only really used it once more in game (react to your opponents weakness)
- Lamela got 82 minutes (no his ****ing work rate doesn't justify it)
- Neither Vert or Fazio was picking up Bony, time and time again in first half, nothing changed in 2nd half
- Eriksen was not effective out wide, either as a threat or really cover
- We got extremely lucky not to be down to 10 men, again no action from Poch to proactively address

We played to the end, when Dembele/Stambouli got on, we saw a little more of the ball, but we got lucky because unlike other "lucky" coaches, we rode our luck on stuff we could have dealt with or tried to counter/take advantage of.

 

[braineclipse]

Personally I thought that Pochettino got schooled tactically by Monk (just as he also did by Warnock a week ago). Yes we won the game, but it was daylight robbery really with us being second best to Swansea for all but the first 20 minutes and last 5 to 10 minutes of the game. We worked hard and kept going which was pleasing, but overall I did not think it was a good performance at all.

You say that you could see Poch's style of play whenever our full backs got forward but it is all too easy for the opposition to stop that happening. Monk did exactly what Warnock did to us last weekend and played two wingers. This kept our fullbacks pinned back and ensured that we had no width when attacking. Their two proper wingers also led to our fullbacks having to take a very wide defensive position that resulted in huge gaps between them and our centre halves and also a large gap between our two centre halves. Swansea were able to capitalise on our stretched defence on numerous occasions with huge space for their creative players to thread the ball through to Bony, who played right on the edge of that 'offside' line and got in behind us a number of times. In the second half it looked as though Pochettino at least tried to counter this by getting Davies to play a bit more narrow but this then opened up acres of space for Routledge.

I didn't see much 'nice passing' from us in the final third'. There was Davies ball into Ericksen in the last minute that I thought was very good from both players (but this was a situation that came about simply due to a poor decision/clearance from Swansea). There was also one very nice attacking break from Spurs in the second half where our players hunted in a pack, turned the ball over around the half way line and then went forward quickly with the ball giving us a three on three against them and almost resulted in a chance being created for us.

I have seen a few people criticising Bentaleb and/or Mason but they are getting completely outumbered in the midfield. The opposition push their fullbacks up (as they don't have to worry about any pace and width from our two wide midfielders) this leaves our two in the midfield outnumbered against the opposition's three. We can counter this by pulling Kane deeper to make up the numbers, but then we have no attacking outlet at all if we win the ball back.

The biggest positive I took out of that game was that it is another away game that we have won where we deserved to get beaten.... Perhaps there is something to that old Napolean quote of "Don't bring me good generals, bring me lucky generals". It seems that perhaps we finally have a lucky general at the helm.... I think I would prefer to have a general who was more 'good' than 'lucky' however.

Swansea played the exact same front 6 as against West Ham last week and as against QPR the week before that. Shelvey started instead of Britton the game against Palace before that, same front 4.

Monk didn't school Pochettino. Monk kept doing what Swansea have been doing for a very long time, something they're rather good at. Play their football. We on the other hand are very much a work in progress. I see no reason to think that he started Routledge and Moreno "to counter Poch's game plan" when Routledge has started 14 games this season and Montero has started their last 8 league games. Probably more to do that this is the best team they can put out right now...

There's a reason why Sigurdsson has 8 assists this season and why Bony as scored more goals than any others in the PL in 2014 (iirc). There's a reason why Swansea will probably finish at least comfortably in mid table. They're a good team that are tough to play against. That's not the same as getting schooled.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Utd did this for years. Didn't play well and won games with late goals. Fergie was a genius and Poch is lucky. Ok.

BTW. Not comparing Poch to Fergie but more that good coaches and good teams get late winners because they deserve them. It is not luck if you do it regularly. And we are not lucky that Davies made a last ditch tackle or that Hugo makes great saves. Those are our very good players. They are supposed to do that.

Liverpool through the 70s and 80s made a huge habit of winning games through lucky late goals!

It's what fit teams with strong mentality do.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Swansea played the exact same front 6 as against West Ham last week and as against QPR the week before that. Shelvey started instead of Britton the game against Palace before that, same front 4.

Monk didn't school Pochettino. Monk kept doing what Swansea have been doing for a very long time, something they're rather good at. Play their football. We on the other hand are very much a work in progress. I see no reason to think that he started Routledge and Moreno "to counter Poch's game plan" when Routledge has started 14 games this season and Montero has started their last 8 league games. Probably more to do that this is the best team they can put out right now...

There's a reason why Sigurdsson has 8 assists this season and why Bony as scored more goals than any others in the PL in 2014 (iirc). There's a reason why Swansea will probably finish at least comfortably in mid table. They're a good team that are tough to play against. That's not the same as getting schooled.

I think Swansea away is statistically the 4th toughest fixture in the league at the moment (after Chelsea away, United away and City home)

 

[braineclipse]

Liverpool through the 70s and 80s made a huge habit of winning games through lucky late goals!

It's what fit teams with strong mentality do.

I agree. At the same time it's important to acknowledge that this alone is not enough.

In isolation the Swansea game was decent from us I thought. We were second best for longer than I would have wanted and opened up a bit too easily a bit too frequently. I don't think a draw would have been entirely unreasonable, although they edged it overall. A hard fought draw away to a mid table side is hardly a disaster though, thus a decent performance in isolation.

Our problem remains creating chances against teams that sit back more. The reason the Swansea game was never going to be seen as decent in isolation from many of our fans is our failure to break down and beat teams that are significantly worse than Swansea on paper. Right now this is what needs to improve.

 

[Robspur12]

Mate, lets be clear .. its never all one or the other

To Poch's credit

- Set piece where we pulled the defenders forward to give Kane room worked
- Davies was heavily involved in the press than led to turnover to Eriksen scoring
- Our fitness probably has a bit to do with our ability to score late goals

The problem I have is

- Swansea were struggling with anything aerial (see Kane's chance later in game), they had been abused by Andy Carroll last game out, we got the early goal from exactly that play, yet only really used it once more in game (react to your opponents weakness)
- Lamela got 82 minutes (no his ****ing work rate doesn't justify it)
- Neither Vert or Fazio was picking up Bony, time and time again in first half, nothing changed in 2nd half
- Eriksen was not effective out wide, either as a threat or really cover
- We got extremely lucky not to be down to 10 men, again no action from Poch to proactively address

We played to the end, when Dembele/Stambouli got on, we saw a little more of the ball, but we got lucky because unlike other "lucky" coaches, we rode our luck on stuff we could have dealt with or tried to counter/take advantage of.

Mate, great poster as you are, it seems with every post you are simply looking to have criticise Poch which is a shame from someone purporting to be a Spurs fan.

Yep verts and Fazio did not deal with bony in the 1st half but after his goal they handled him well such that he was eventually replaced by Gomis.

Eriksen worked his *******s off out wide. Seeing as he scored the winner clearly he was effective despite playing out on the left.

You wanted us to put lots of aerial balls into the box. Who are we Wimbledon of the 1980s? Stoke under Tony Pulis? Poch would be murdered if he said just pepper the opposition box with high balls. Surely fans expect us to play better than that. We had 2 very good set pieces, 1 we scored from the other we almost scored.

Re: substitutions - really easy as a fan to decide substitutions, formations etc. but the manager has to take into account players physical state, their stamina and likelihood of getting injured because we have a tough schedule coming up. Or is it that being a football manager is so easy anyone can do it?

Re: Poch being lucky, yeah at times he rode his luck, but you need to do that to succeed in the Pl. Mourinho was lucky Cahill was not sent off for diving, or a free kick awarded against obi mikel before their first goal. Does that make him a lucky manager?

 

[braineclipse]

Wouldn't have minded us going more direct with long balls etc. Particularly on a rather heavy and water soaked pitch. But with Ade missing the closest we are to a target man is Harry Kane. Could have dropped Soldado and played Chadli in behind him to give us some more physicality, but I still don't think we'd have anywhere near the same impact as Carroll did.

Part of the reason why we need Ade replaced (or back to fitness, form and effort).

 

[Robspur12]

I

Wouldn't have minded us going more direct with long balls etc. Particularly on a rather heavy and water soaked pitch. But with Ade missing the closest we are to a target man is Harry Kane. Could have dropped Soldado and played Chadli in behind him to give us some more physicality, but I still don't think we'd have anywhere near the same impact as Carroll did.

Part of the reason why we need Ade replaced (or back to fitness, form and effort).

But that is just not the way I can ever envisage us playing under poch.

 

[braineclipse]

I


But that is just not the way I can ever envisage us playing under poch.

With Chadli or with some new signing? With Chadli I would agree, for his size he just doesn't put himself about enough.

Poch clearly wanted Adebayor to work out and reach some good form. He also used Lambert at Southampton with a lot of success and they were very good at mixing it up between more direct balls up to Lambert, more intricate passing play and crosses I thought. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants something similar here, but right now he just doesn't have the players available to do it. I would be absolutely unsurprised, and rather happy, if a target man-esque player was brought in during the transfer window.

If you look at some managers he's been compared to, styles of play I hope we try to emulate at least to a point: Bielsa, apparently some solid success with Gignac at Marseille now. Obviously great success at Bilbao with Llorente up front. Klopp, great success with Lewandowski (a damn near complete forward absolutely capable of challenging defenders physically). Simeone, with Costa and replacing him with Mandzukic.

 

[Cochise]

I agree with the above post about Monk vs Poch, Swansea play their game and that's that. Montero and Routledge played their natural game and stretched us to the extent that Bony and Sigurdson got time and space to operate in. We pressed really well in that opening 15-20 minutes, but after that there wasn't enough pressure on the ball with us seemingly doubling up on Montero and being outnumber in the middle.

A big problem imo is atm we defend set pieces with 11 men. This leads to us not having an outball and any clearance lands at the feet of an opposition player, thus the pressure remains on us and the cycle of defending continues.

 

[Mumorn]

I love how fitter the players look. Swansea were dead on their feet the final 15 minutes. Our players looked like they could have played another 20 minutes at the end of the game. This will see us do well in many games if we are drawing or even preserving a lead.

If we are fitter than the opposition, our chances of winning increases. I'm exciting for the second half of the season, just hope we get some nice fresh faces in January to add competition to the team and some first team faces.

Also time to integrate Stambouli. He, other than Mason and bentaleb know how to keep possession in midfield as well as recycle the ball quickly. With bentaleb leaving us in January, we need to get him in the team.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Swansea played the exact same front 6 as against West Ham last week and as against QPR the week before that. Shelvey started instead of Britton the game against Palace before that, same front 4.

Monk didn't school Pochettino. Monk kept doing what Swansea have been doing for a very long time, something they're rather good at. Play their football. We on the other hand are very much a work in progress. I see no reason to think that he started Routledge and Moreno "to counter Poch's game plan" when Routledge has started 14 games this season and Montero has started their last 8 league games. Probably more to do that this is the best team they can put out right now...

There's a reason why Sigurdsson has 8 assists this season and why Bony as scored more goals than any others in the PL in 2014 (iirc). There's a reason why Swansea will probably finish at least comfortably in mid table. They're a good team that are tough to play against. That's not the same as getting schooled.

So it's even worse than I thought?.... Opposition managers can school Pochettino without even having to change their line up and tactics? How did Pochettino think we were going to get our width if our fullbacks couldn't get forward? What did Pochettino do to try to ensure that the opposition's wingers were not able to give them width for the entire game? How did Pochettino try to counter the fact that their two wingers would lead to big gaps around and between our centre halves for Bony to exploit? Or did he just play his standard formation and hope for the best?

 

[billyiddo]

He's probably focussed on our team/tactics and getting the players used to what he wants from them rather than being reactionary in every single game...

 

[braineclipse]

So it's even worse than I thought?.... Opposition managers can school Pochettino without even having to change their line up and tactics? How did Pochettino think we were going to get our width if our fullbacks couldn't get forward? What did Pochettino do to try to ensure that the opposition's wingers were not able to give them width for the entire game? How did Pochettino try to counter the fact that their two wingers would lead to big gaps around and between our centre halves for Bony to exploit? Or did he just play his standard formation and hope for the best?

Are these questions you put as much time and thought into as your previous claim that Monk schooled Poch by adjusting his line-up to what we're doing?

You seem to be of the opinion that Swansea rose through the league system and established themselves as a good mid table PL side by playing a system that's easy to beat. It makes no sense to me.

The fact is Swansea will probably finish no more than than 6-7 spots behind us in the league even if we reach our rather ambitious targets. They're a good side with an established style of play. And you're asking why we can't just go out and outplay them away from home when we're clearly still a work in progress.