Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Rorschach]

Ajax has that style of play and system ingrained in them through generations. And the current Ajax side is one that De Boer has had plenty of time (deservedly so obviously) to build. Is there a reason to think that he'd be able to ingrain a similar style on this group of players in half a season if at Spurs?

Looking at our players I don't think there's an obvious ability to play that style, particularly not from some of the established players that are now seemingly being fazed out.

You couldn't be more correct that it is ingrained at an early age. I watched an Ajax academy team destroy all teams before it (including mine) over 3 days at a tourney last year. Very very impressive they were. It certainly would take time to embed their playing philosophy at Spurs (at all levels), but I think the effort would have been worth it. As for the first team, at least he would have had two old Ajax disciples to help. How Poch would have liked a few of his own players to help him on this front.
So yes, it wouldn't be easy to mimic the Ajax style (patterns is a better description IMO) to be sure, but when I look out our current set-up I cannot see a discernible pattern in our play. Our approach seems to vary from game to game. Maybe with more time our playing 'identity' will become clearer. Let's hope.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It seems you know as much about boxing as you do about football.

Amir Khan would be a decent comparison.... Very good at beating those of a lower class than him, but exposed when going up against those who were better than him.

Unless I have misunderstood you Gutter Boy? and you were actually comparing our play this season to a boxer and used Audley as your comparison for that?!?

 

[Finney Is Back]

My questions for you

Has got us doing some nice pass-and-move in patches. Our attacking play against QPR, Sunderland, Arsenal (in patches), Soton, Emirates Marketing Project, Saudi Sportswashing Machine (first half) and Everton show what Poch can instill. A manager who is "not even mediocre" doesn't have a team in 10th ffs. It's our defence and defensive midfield that has let us down. However, we ARE creating the chances (see Soldado and Ade's finishing records).

While the attacking performances in the games you listed above were better than the rest of those served up this season I think it would be exaggerating in many cases to call them anything other than "OK"....

From what I saw QPR and Sunderland sat off of us massively and let us play. I think that when teams do this we seem to cope quite well. I think players like Eriksen, Chadli and Lamela are then able to take their time and make things happen (hence why I think we also suddenly looked like a good team when Villa and Hull went down to 10 men - as they then completely sat off of us).

I think it is when a team doesn't give us time to play that we struggle, and then when we turn over the ball we seem to find it impossible to quickly get into a good defensive shape. I think the opposition have realised this and are coming to WHL and looking to press us as opposed to just sitting off of us.

Personally I didn't see particularly good attaching play against Soton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Arsenal. Certainly nothing that was better than most of that served up in the second half of last season. I think the only game at home where I was impressed other than the QPR game (where I find it hard to judge whether it was our good play or their incompetence) was Everton - and yet having finally given a good performance with a nice balance between our attacking and defensive play, the manager then changed the shape of the team for the following home game resulting in us looking as dysfunctional as we did against West Brom, Stoke and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I think at the moment we are perhaps the easiest team to defend against in the league. We have no pace, no width and no power up front. Teams can defend high up the pitch and be confident that we don't have the pace to expose that, teams can also push their fullbacks on safe in the knowledge that when we get the ball in wide positions we will take it back inside and not expose the gaps that their attacking fullbacks leave.

 

[NWND]

While the attacking performances in the games you listed above were better than the rest of those served up this season I think it would be exaggerating in many cases to call them anything other than "OK"....

From what I saw QPR and Sunderland sat off of us massively and let us play. I think that when teams do this we seem to cope quite well. I think players like Eriksen, Chadli and Lamela are then able to take their time and make things happen (hence why I think we also suddenly looked like a good team when Villa and Hull went down to 10 men - as they then completely sat off of us).

I think it is when a team doesn't give us time to play that we struggle, and then when we turn over the ball we seem to find it impossible to quickly get into a good defensive shape. I think the opposition have realised this and are coming to WHL and looking to press us as opposed to just sitting off of us.

Personally I didn't see particularly good attaching play against Soton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Arsenal. Certainly nothing that was better than most of that served up in the second half of last season. I think the only game at home where I was impressed other than the QPR game (where I find it hard to judge whether it was our good play or their incompetence) was Everton - and yet having finally given a good performance with a nice balance between our attacking and defensive play, the manager then changed the shape of the team for the following home game resulting in us looking as dysfunctional as we did against West Brom, Stoke and Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I think at the moment we are perhaps the easiest team to defend against in the league. We have no pace, no width and no power up front. Teams can defend high up the pitch and be confident that we don't have the pace to expose that, teams can also push their fullbacks on safe in the knowledge that when we get the ball in wide positions we will take it back inside and not expose the gaps that their attacking fullbacks leave.

Exactly. We looked good against Everton, as it was the first time we stripped the game down to basics and decided to do those right first and foremost. Team with balanced shape, playing most of the players that had been in-form, give them a pace threat in Lennon to deal with which means they can't just go hunting in packs without caution in case they get exposed inbehind, a commitment to press as a team ourselves and quick transitions into Lennon, Kane and Eriksen when we won the ball back.

 

[DTA]

Exactly. We looked good against Everton, as it was the first time we stripped the game down to basics and decided to do those right first and foremost. Team with balanced shape, playing most of the players that had been in-form, give them a pace threat in Lennon to deal with which means they can't just go hunting in packs without caution in case they get exposed inbehind, a commitment to press as a team ourselves and quick transitions into Lennon, Kane and Eriksen when we won the ball back.

Everton was really good, but i remember reading one poster pointing out that everton are a possession side and pouch's teams will always look good against possession sides, but not so good against the rest, can't remember who it was, but the post seems worryingly bang on at the moment.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Unless I have misunderstood you Gutter Boy? and you were actually comparing our play this season to a boxer and used Audley as your comparison for that?!?

Sorry, no I just meant Harrison was a bit of a clueless competitor with a big mouth who fluked himself a chance on the big stage and the humiliated himself, just like Sherwood. Nothing deeper than that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Sorry, no I just meant Harrison was a bit of a clueless competitor with a big mouth who fluked himself a chance on the big stage and the humiliated himself, just like Sherwood. Nothing deeper than that.

How did Sherwood humiliate himself? He had the highest win percentage of any Spurs manager in the PL era :lol: I believe it's far too simplistic to look purely at stats, but the results and performances against any team besides Liverpool, Chelsea and City were anything but embarrassing.

 

[braineclipse]

You couldn't be more correct that it is ingrained at an early age. I watched an Ajax academy team destroy all teams before it (including mine) over 3 days at a tourney last year. Very very impressive they were. It certainly would take time to embed their playing philosophy at Spurs (at all levels), but I think the effort would have been worth it. As for the first team, at least he would have had two old Ajax disciples to help. How Poch would have liked a few of his own players to help him on this front.
So yes, it wouldn't be easy to mimic the Ajax style (patterns is a better description IMO) to be sure, but when I look out our current set-up I cannot see a discernible pattern in our play. Our approach seems to vary from game to game. Maybe with more time our playing 'identity' will become clearer. Let's hope.

I think we are moving in a similar direction already with the way our youth setup is doing these days.

 

[Gutter Boy]

How did Sherwood humiliate himself? He had the highest win percentage of any Spurs manager in the PL era :lol: I believe it's far too simplistic to look purely at stats, but the results and performances against any team besides Liverpool, Chelsea and City were anything but embarrassing.

By his off-field behaviour and on-field naivety

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry, no I just meant Harrison was a bit of a clueless competitor with a big mouth who fluked himself a chance on the big stage and the humiliated himself, just like Sherwood. Nothing deeper than that.

I see I was right in my suspicion that you don't know much about boxing.... Harrison was far from clueless as a boxer, he was actually a very, very good amateur, but simply didn't have the punching power or (more importantly) the heart to make it in the professional ranks. Harrison didn't 'fluke' himself a chance on the big stage, he won the right by becoming Olympic Super Heavyweight champion.

Equally if Sherwood humiliated himself by gaining the best points per game record of any Spurs manager I dread to think what Pochettino is currently doing!

 

[Finney Is Back]

By his off-field behaviour and on-field naivety

On field naivety?.... By this do you mean pairing a right back who is rubbish going forward with a wide midfield player who always goes inside? Or playing a holding midfield player who cannot actually defend for about a quarter of the season?

 

[Jurgen the German]

By his off-field behaviour and on-field naivety

Those wins against United, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Stoke, Palace and Southampton were really embarrassing.

 

[harr1984]

By his off-field behaviour and on-field naivety

His off field behaviour should have been better, but the very odd hatred for the guy by many even before he took over meant this was over exaggerated. His on field naivety - surely he wouldnt of had such good results if this was true? Did he make the odd mistake, sure but show me a manager who hasnt. He was a rookie, but was getting results that if Poch got identical results to we would all be going nuts about how good the future was looking....

 

[Gutter Boy]

I see I was right in my suspicion that you don't know much about boxing.... Harrison was far from clueless as a boxer, he was actually a very, very good amateur, but simply didn't have the punching power or (more importantly) the heart to make it in the professional ranks. Harrison didn't 'fluke' himself a chance on the big stage, he won the right by becoming Olympic Super Heavyweight champion.

Equally if Sherwood humiliated himself by gaining the best points per game record of any Spurs manager I dread to think what Pochettino is currently doing!

The problem with amateur boxing and the Olympics, is that no-one takes it seriously apart from the Cubans.

A bit like loaning a few players to Swindon isn't exactly the credentials you need to become an EPL manager.

On field naivety?.... By this do you mean pairing a right back who is rubbish going forward with a wide midfield player who always goes inside? Or playing a holding midfield player who cannot actually defend for about a quarter of the season?

Sherwood's open door CM was one of the dumbest things I've seen in football. It was a bit like trying to play with a rush goalie or something. It kind of worked for a bit because people were just too shocked to believe it was happening.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

On field naivety?.... By this do you mean pairing a right back who is rubbish going forward with a wide midfield player who always goes inside? Or playing a holding midfield player who cannot actually defend for about a quarter of the season?

I am absolutely behind Poch, but in fairness to Sherwood, he called this one.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/278661.html

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Sherwood's open door CM was one of the dumbest things I've seen in football. It was a bit like trying to play with a rush goalie or something. It kind of worked for a bit because people were just too shocked to believe it was happening.

Sherwood's comments about 'not needing a specialist defensive midfielder' was just another way of saying 'when one CM goes forward, the other should have the awareness to sit and protect' which is just another way of saying 'double pivot'.

Unfortunately unless you speak about football as if you have a degree in Astro-Physics, or helped to develop the programming for football manager nowadays, you are often labelled as a 'Dinotard' as I believe the expression on here goes.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Audley had one problem and that was heart. He was a wuss in the ring. Otherwise he could have ruled the heavyweight diction in my opinion. Sherwood has heart but lacked class.

Anyway this threads about Poch.

 

[milo]

Anyway this threads about Poch.

Thanks. I was just about to remind everyone of this again.

There is a Sherwood thread over on General for anyone who wants to talk about the gilletted one.

 

[Raziel]

So what's the corrective action?

We have three games coming up, what does Poch have to learn/do to get through those and get the right results?

 

[milo]

So what's the corrective action?

We have three games coming up, what does Poch have to learn/do to get through those and get the right results?

I think that tiredness is always going to be an issue when the coach does not trust/rate a third of the squad.