Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
He probably needs to scatter in players like Winks, Ceballos, Oduwa and Miller to give the likes of Mason, Eriksen and Kane a bit more recovery time.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
He probably needs to scatter in players like Winks, Ceballos, Oduwa and Miller to give the likes of Mason, Eriksen and Kane a bit more recovery time.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
If our players are tired at this stage of the season then our coaching methods must be bloody appalling. I don't think tiredness is a problem at all, I think that is an excuse to try to hide the fact that our tactics and quality are a big problem. We spent almost a quarter of a season with the worst holding midfield player I have ever seen playing for us. We have also spent pracically the whole season so far playing without a single attacking player who can provide any width. We also spent about a quarter of a season playing different combinations of central defensive partnerships.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
OK Finney, enough moaning on and on, what would YOU do right now? December 8th 2014. You are the Chairman of Tottenham Hotspur FC. What are your moves?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Whereas now we are instead getting outplayed at home by the likes of WBA, Stoke and Crystal Palace.... and let's not kid ourselves they are not coming and nicking a result as a few lower class teams have done to us in the past, but they are instead outplaying us and deserving their wins.
You can laugh all you want at our time under Sherwood, but I don't understand how you feel you can laugh at our performances under Sherwood while not being in hysterics over our performances under Pochettino.
Also I think your comment about Sherwood's 'open door DM' doesn't actually come from reality it instead comes from you reading a quote about Sherwood not believing in playing a DM and you making an assumption about it meaning that he didn't see the need to defend. In reality Sherwood typically played Bentaleb and Dembele as as his two central midfielders with Eriksen playing from the left and tucking in. The idea was that any of the players could push on, but another should cover. This formation was much more difficult for the opposition to defend against than the formation that Pochettino employed where Capoue was played as an out and out defensive midfielder who didn't really ever venture forward. It seems that gradually Pochettino has realised this and come round to Sherwood's way of thinking (with Eriksen coming from the left and tucking in, Bentaleb playing a similar role to the one he played under Sherwood and Mason playing in the same role as Dembele under Sherwood).... I'm not sure if that means that Pochettino is a 'Dinotard' however?
I can only imagine some of the serious choking on words that took place when Pochettino played a Sherwood'esque 4-4-1-1 against Everton the other week.... I bet some on here feel that the fact it gave us by far and away our best performance of the season was merely coincidental. :lol:
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Should I log your response to my question of 'what would you do Finney?' as 'sack Pochettino and reinstate Tim Sherwood'? Do you have another thought? Care to share it? BTW, 4-4-1-1 was the formation we had largely been using for about three seasons, and given the players we had at the time, one we could handsomely pull off. It is also a system widely used in modern Premiership football as I'm sure you know.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I think there is an aspect of hyperbole in some of the reactions here. We beat Everton and everyone was happy. We lost to a strong Chelsea at Stamford Bridge and I think 2-1 would have been a fairer reflection of the game. Then we drew 0-0 to Palace who trounced Liverpool recently and to be fair have a decent, pacey team right now.
Important to remember that we really do not have anyone who is scoring goals regularly right now either. Lots of problems in front of goal.
We have had a lot of fixtures much like other teams but we have the added baggage of Europa League and Everton are a clear example of what that does to a team.
Important to remember that we really do not have anyone who is scoring goals regularly right now either. Lots of problems in front of goal.
We have had a lot of fixtures much like other teams but we have the added baggage of Europa League and Everton are a clear example of what that does to a team.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I don't think Poch is the problem right now. We are in transition and may go through that for a while. It seems that Arsenal, Pool, Everton and United are going through a similar phase.
Long season ahead. A lot can change. I hope it does.
Long season ahead. A lot can change. I hope it does.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Look I take your point that it would be difficult/stupid/suicidal to sack another manager at this stage.... That doesn't mean we should just accept the fact that we are having a bad season and that a squad of by and large the same players (plus/minus the ones Pochettino wanted to add/get rid of) look worse than we did last year.
The chairman is obviously at an advantage over me as (I assume) he is completely aware of our manager's vision in terms of what he wants to achieve, how he wants to achieve it and the roadmap that is in place to enable him to achieve it.
The things I would want to know however would be:
1. Why are we already tired after less than half a season has gone?
2. Will the manager always play i.n.v.e.r.t.e.d w.i.n.g.e.r.s no matter what?.... even if we don't have full backs available who can provide our width?
3. Is the manager prepared to change his gameplan during the game if his preferred gameplan isn't working?
4. Why did Capoue play for over a quarter of the season when he is clearly absolute dogsh!t?
5. Why is he persisting with Lamela, despite the fact that he isn't showing signs of improving his play?
6. Why did he drop the only player who gives us width when attacking and go back to i.n.v.e.r.t.e.d w.i.n.g.e.r.s in our next home game after our best performance of the season in our previous home game?
7. Why are teams with much lower value players and wage bills able to come to WHL, look so comfortable defensively against us and outplay us in terms of chances created?
8. Why was our last manager able to achieve more with the same bunch of players? Is it a communication thing was he tactically better or did he worry less about the opponent and concentrate more on our own strengths?
9. How long does he think it will take for the squad to learn his methods and look like a cohesive team?
10. What players are/aren't buying into the 'philosophy' which players should I sell (even for a big loss) and which should I push the boat out for (within reason - I don't mean AVB pie in the sky targets).
Look I get that Pochettino has a 'philosophy' and I get that a certain type of player and a certain type of mentality is required in order to implement that philosophy - however all managers are judged on performances and results. I have gone to work in many failing businesses/departments with the task of turning them round. There is obviously always a long term goal to work towards. However I also accept that I cannot change things instantly so have to find a way of achieving some short term wins along the way.
I was pleased with our performance against Everton - I thought that finally Pochettino had realised that having some pace and width would help to open up the centre of pitch, but straight away he goes back to the same formation that Stoke, WBA, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, etc had all found so easy to defend against.... Then after watching 45 minutes of us taking the ball inside where Palace had numbers he takes off Lamela (hooray!) and puts on Chadli to do exactly the same thing that Lamela was (or should I say wasn't) doing.
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I thought we played quite narrow against Everton, most of our attacks came on the counter direct through the center of the pitch - i've checked the stats, posted the relevant ones in this thread iirc and they back that thinking up - we actually had more wide possession/passes on the wings against Chelsea so i find it strange that width is being used as the reason why we were good against Everton whilst not so good against Chelsea.
The major difference between the two games was possession, imo. One we countered one we 'controlled' - it also ties in with our other games this season - games we dominate possession wise we generally struggle to create chances in, games where we counter we look more of a threat in the final 3rd.
The major difference between the two games was possession, imo. One we countered one we 'controlled' - it also ties in with our other games this season - games we dominate possession wise we generally struggle to create chances in, games where we counter we look more of a threat in the final 3rd.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I saw an article in the Telegraph that showed our player's average position against Everton, Lennon's average position was very wide (closer to the touchline than to the right edge of the centre circle). That is probably as wide an average position as a player could ever get.
This was compared to another map showing the average positions that we took up against Hull. Lamela's average position in that game was left of the right edge of the centre circle - which is more narrow even than Mason's average position against Everton! Interestingly enough the Hull heatmap actually showed Spurs as only having a single player with an average position to the right of that (Dier - who's average position was pretty much level with the right edge of our penalty area).
I will try to find a similar map for our game against Palace at the weekend. I could well be wrong but I would be surprised if Lamela's average position is as wide as Lennon's against Everton.
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spurspinter1
Steve Carr
2 - 1 would have been no fair reflection on the game. They were playing with us for the last 60 minutes of that game rather than against us.
That's just one position though, im talking about the whole team, against Chelsea Chiriches was getting forward on the right more and providing width and also Eriksen switched to the right for the second half. We saw more of the ball in wide positions in the game we was supposedly narrow and less of the ball in wide positions in the game we 'had width'
We had sub 40% possession against Everton so Lennons defensive duties trying to contain Baines and Mirales(?) would skew any average position graph, potentially?
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
While I agree with you to an extent here - had we of taken one of our chances during our promising first 15 minutes or so then we could've played exactly the same counter attacking game that they did having got their goals. We played this to good effect against Everton after going ahead and also for most of the match against Arsenal.
Counter attacking is the key, more so than any supposed width we gain through having Lennon in the side IMV - we played it to good effect against Everton and Arsenal, you could even make an argument for City away as well - certainly looked more dangerous in an attacking sense.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I disagree.... Width is key. Without it the game becomes congested and it is incredibly difficult to work the ball into a goalscoring position.... This is especially the case against a team who are going make sure they get men behind the ball quickly when they lose possession as the likes of Palace, West Brom, Stoke and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have all done to us at WHL this season. Having Lennon in the team generally results in two of the opposition's players having to take a much wider position - the fullback and either a central midfielder or their wide midfield player having to come back. This creates space for our other attacking players. Playing Lamela on the right and Ericksen/Chadli on the left allows our opponents fullbacks to tuck in. It also doesn't force their wide midfielders to have to defend as they typically take the ball into the centre towards the opponents defensive midfielder.
sc25
Banned
Luton, me too. Assuming the 4 teams you mention are indeed in transition it would suggest that 3rd and 4th are up for grabs. If you take over a 6th place squad, (which allegedly underachieved), you add 6 of your own players over the summer, and you have the Jan window coming too, on the face of it that would seem an enticing opportunity however much you may be in transition yourself (and which may have crossed Levy's mind). Agree?
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"Width/wingers/crosses - just pie n mash cave-man football"
A vid from my favourite season of recent times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRoGi8UoY7I
Thing is we're getting too hung up about various ways of playing football and scoring goals. I think what the above vid demonstrates, in its variety, is that if you're going to be a competitive team, you have to have the ability to score goals from as many different situations as possible.
There's such a variety of teams out there and different styles.
You need a pacey outlet out wide and the ability to produce and convert crosses;
You need the ability to play through-balls through the centre and play one-twos around the box;
You need the ability to GHod-forbid, hit it long to your centre-forward;
You need the ability to take advantage of comedy defending by the other team.
I feel under Poch and AVB that ultimately they are holding their teams back by limiting the ability of the team to score a variety of different sorts of goals by being a bit too rigid in terms of the style of play, particularly in an attacking sense.
Sherwood tried to open it up a bit to be fair to him and get that variety in our play that had been sorely lacking under AVB.
Variety is the spice of life and it makes you hard to defend against.
A vid from my favourite season of recent times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRoGi8UoY7I
Thing is we're getting too hung up about various ways of playing football and scoring goals. I think what the above vid demonstrates, in its variety, is that if you're going to be a competitive team, you have to have the ability to score goals from as many different situations as possible.
There's such a variety of teams out there and different styles.
You need a pacey outlet out wide and the ability to produce and convert crosses;
You need the ability to play through-balls through the centre and play one-twos around the box;
You need the ability to GHod-forbid, hit it long to your centre-forward;
You need the ability to take advantage of comedy defending by the other team.
I feel under Poch and AVB that ultimately they are holding their teams back by limiting the ability of the team to score a variety of different sorts of goals by being a bit too rigid in terms of the style of play, particularly in an attacking sense.
Sherwood tried to open it up a bit to be fair to him and get that variety in our play that had been sorely lacking under AVB.
Variety is the spice of life and it makes you hard to defend against.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
To summarise the last few days
Option 1 = take care of the ball, knock it between the centre backs, short to the midfield, back to the centre backs, 4 touches each, give the opposition time to get lulled to sleep, work it into the feet of Lamela or Eriksen, let them dribble towards the D and the waiting centre backs. Repeat.
Option 2 = 1 or 2 touches each, work it as fast as possible up the pitch, make some runs to pull them around, if someone comes short someone else goes long, try to get behind the defence in wide positions to cut it back across the box for onrushing team mates.
I understand those saying that Lennon doesn't automatically make Option 2 happen... but the problem is that without him Option 1 seems to happen too much as Lamela likes to hold the ball and jink towards the D and we are playing a centre back at right back and nobody left wing, so we don't have any width apart from Ben Davies.
Option 1 = take care of the ball, knock it between the centre backs, short to the midfield, back to the centre backs, 4 touches each, give the opposition time to get lulled to sleep, work it into the feet of Lamela or Eriksen, let them dribble towards the D and the waiting centre backs. Repeat.
Option 2 = 1 or 2 touches each, work it as fast as possible up the pitch, make some runs to pull them around, if someone comes short someone else goes long, try to get behind the defence in wide positions to cut it back across the box for onrushing team mates.
I understand those saying that Lennon doesn't automatically make Option 2 happen... but the problem is that without him Option 1 seems to happen too much as Lamela likes to hold the ball and jink towards the D and we are playing a centre back at right back and nobody left wing, so we don't have any width apart from Ben Davies.
Can i play??
1) Let Poch know I'm 100% behind him. Not in public but via communicating with each other.
2) Ask him who he wants to leave. Sell them.
3) Ask him who he wants to buy and try my hardest to buy them.