Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Would have been satisfied with De Boer as he has won league titles with Ajax. Other than that, surely we could have waited a little longer to look for other successfull managers. I think many managers will be available after the World Cup. Don't know why we needed to appoint Pochettino just 2 weeks after the season finished. He has not even won any trophies since becoming a manager ! It looks like yet another panic appointment by Levy.

I would have been happy with De Boer, but if you look at the positives I just put up for Poch;

- Premiership Experience (biggest factor IMO)
- History of attractive football with a team full of attacking players similar to our own
- Young manager hungry to make a name for himself
- Evidence that he can bring players through the ranks rather than buy. Another very important factor as I don't see us shelling out much money over the next 5 years, or at least until the stadium is built
- Same nationality as our prize possession who's been struggling with injury and will be under pressure this season to deliver

And Compare them to De Boer;

- Won trophies in another league
- History of attractive football with a team full of attacking players similar to our own
- Young manager hungry to make a name for himself
- Evidence that he can bring players through the ranks rather than buy. Another very important factor as I don't see us shelling out much money over the next 5 years, or at least until the stadium is built
- Has worked in the past with one of our prized possessions who could well turn out to be our next big money sale to Madrid

I've bolded the differences, and there aren't many really. The only major difference being that De Boer has won stuff, but I honestly think that having premiership experience, in the situation we are currently in, is more important. So for that reason, I think Poch is the better choice.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Ha, oh dear, you could be right about 'long ball' being the best way to beat Poch's pressing system:

Southampton 0 - 0 West Ham
West Ham 3 - 1 Southampton

Good news is that there are very few teams left in the PL with the ability/personnel or inclination to play the old fashioned long-ball game effectively. West Ham are the only one really who have the personnel and philosophy of the old 'knock it up to the bully of a centre-forward' English tactics. Stoke have the personnel, but don't think Hughes has the inclination.

I think there are many teams who would resort to it if they think it will get a result (even a nil nil) against us.... I would say that almost every bottom half team would happily change their tactics to route one for our game if it showed as the most likely way to get something out of the game.

 

[braineclipse]

Would have been satisfied with De Boer as he has won league titles with Ajax. Other than that, surely we could have waited a little longer to look for other successfull managers. I think many managers will be available after the World Cup. Don't know why we needed to appoint Pochettino just 2 weeks after the season finished. He has not even won any trophies since becoming a manager ! It looks like yet another panic appointment by Levy.

De Boer seems a lot more similar to AVB to me. I don't understand at all why people are continuously comparing Poch to AVB whilst recommending FdB as the option we should have gone for.

Waiting until after the World Cup would have been very risky. I don't think Poch is a panic appointment at all. He's a very promising, young up and coming manager with over 4 years experience in the PL and La Liga (two biggest leagues in the world). He's been highly rated both at Espanyol and Southampton. He obviously impressed in an interviewing process where we most likely also talked to other candidates like FdB. Most likely Baldini, who knows a lot about football, and Levy ended up agreeing on going for Pochettino. The club will have been scouting candidates for months as it became clear that Sherwood wasn't going to keep his job.

I also cannot understand people crying about wanting a big name manager, then going for FdB as their preferred option. He's not a big name manager at this point.

The trophy focus for incoming managers seems flawed to me. Ramos and AVB both had significant trophies in the bag when they arrived. Jol and Redknapp had very few. Winning trophies is as much a result of the size of club the managers have been at as their ability. Pochettino has proven himself at Southampton, a job much closer to the Spurs job compared to the Ajax job FdB has proven himself in imo.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well, shyte players tend to become good managers. Pochettino used to be a shyte player, so hope he will become a good manager with us. I am sure all the Argentina fans remember Pochettino as the player who conceded that stupid penalty to Michael Owen when England beat Argentina 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup. Hope he does better as the manager.

Isn't it a little bit difficult to have over 20 caps for Argentina if you are Shyte?!?

 

[DHSF]

Well, shyte players tend to become good managers. Pochettino used to be a shyte player, so hope he will become a good manager with us. I am sure all the Argentina fans remember Pochettino as the player who conceded that stupid penalty to Michael Owen when England beat Argentina 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup. Hope he does better as the manager.

Whilst I understand that you may be underwhelmed by the appointment (I preferred FdB) I think youre doing Poch a disservice. The way I view it Poch could be a Martinez where with better players and more clout behind him in not only the stature of the club but the likes of Baldini and Levy backing him, he could be successful... only time will tell in this regard.

It is evident that Poch's brief is to get top four and make us a much more attractive side to watch. Whilst he may not get top four next season, as long as there is progress and improvement in the way our team plays and the competitiveness of our team - I think that would satisfy all concerned.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think Chelsea were knocking aimless punts up to Torres. I think it was a tactic instructed by Mourinho to look to get it in behind us to expose our ludicrously high defensive line allied with our centre halves having no pace. The problem (for them) was that Chelsea's pass execution was woeful, but on numerous occasions they had a decent opportunity to get Torres through one on one with Lloris.

They had the opportunity but ultimately they were surrendering possession for the entire first half and weren't threatening us at all. My point is that pressing / high line isn't so easily exposed simply by knocking long balls.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The difference here is that Barcelona have a team packed full of World class players to carry off that system. Now play that same system using players one or two notches down from Barca's and suddenly you'll probably find that Laudrup's tactics will start getting results.

We've already seen how a single shape/tactic manager has fared (failed) under AVB. I for one hope that our new man isn't the charlatan that AVB was.

Of course, what's your point though? Mine is that every system will have weaknesses. It's the Rafa Benitez short blanket theory. Working on any system to give strengths will always leave weaknesses somewhere else. Whether it's Barca or Swansea. All we can ask is that this system helps us perform better than the sum of our parts would suggest that we can.

 

[bluemoonee]

I think some of us are not giving Poch the right credit for his work, and clamouring for a sexy name such as FDB. The 2 are fairly similar in terms of of their young managerial career but what probably tipped it Poch's way was his experience in this league. Would you want next season to be another transitional phase for FDB to figure out his way in this league, or would you want a similar candidate to be able to handle this league from day 1? With that in mind, it clearly swings it Poch's way. I have a good feeling with Poch in that he's shown he can improve players, integrate youth into the first team, create a team spirit, play with a well defined system and more importantly you only hear positive comments from players who have worked under him. It might have worked with FDB but the risk of having an unknown quality, albeit the glamorous branding of being ex-Ajax and Barca player, managing us through a season of learning his ropes in the league seem a tad too risky for myself let alone Levy's perspective. Poch would also have a better idea of our players at his disposal being in the same league vs FDB who probably needs to start reviewing all tapes of us from last season to try to form an opinion.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Heard on sky sports this morning no scarf holding or jersey holding at the press conference till they come back for training in the begining of July.

 

[kanoute16]

Well, shyte players tend to become good managers. Pochettino used to be a shyte player, so hope he will become a good manager with us. I am sure all the Argentina fans remember Pochettino as the player who conceded that stupid penalty to Michael Owen when England beat Argentina 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup. Hope he does better as the manager.

Ahhhhh did Spurs not sign the manager you wanted? Diddums!

Tell you what go and get your 7 year old nephew to take over for you, he's bound to talk less shyte than this!

The only other candidate who was realistically viable was probably FdB and apart from the intrigue there would have been as many doubts with him also - we have already experienced managers winning trophies elsewhere but not doing it with us for example.

By the well you spelt **** wrong!

 

[Hully]

I think there are many teams who would resort to it if they think it will get a result (even a nil nil) against us.... I would say that almost every bottom half team would happily change their tactics to route one for our game if it showed as the most likely way to get something out of the game.

I expect 2/3s of teams next year will sit deep against us and try to hit us on the break. I suggest there will be a lot of discussions on here about parked buses and how to counter it. That's where AVB failed and where Poch will have to find a way.
Only having a plan A is fine if you have the best players because you can dominate. If plan A makes you predicable and easy to counter there's no way it'll work.

 

[Finney Is Back]

They had the opportunity but ultimately they were surrendering possession for the entire first half and weren't threatening us at all. My point is that pressing / high line isn't so easily exposed simply by knocking long balls.

I am not saying that pressing/a high line is "easily exposed by knocking long balls" what I am saying is that a high line potentially gives the opposition a large target to hit to get a ball in behind for a player with pace to run onto and be one on one with the keeper (which is what Chelsea were trying to do). As I said before, it was clear that Chelsea were purposely targeting the huge space in behind our back 4. It was only a lack of quality in their balls in behind us that caused their failure, I can remember several heart attack moments in the first half where they had a fantastic position only to not take advantage due to the ball in behind being poorly executed. I thought we were lucky rather than tactically astute.

The point I made about a team playing long ball to counter Pochettino's tactics did not refer to a team like Chelsea who would want to win the game, but more to a team like West Ham who would be perfectly happy with a nil nil. The point being that if the opposition gets the ball forward early and long then they are very unlikely to turn over possession in a dangerous area and thus negate our chances to score.

If the opposition are clearly hitting it long every time then I would hope that Pochettino would reshape the team so we're not looking to press high up the pitch - as there would simply be nothing to press.

It's fine, I would even go as far as good, to have pure footballing principles, but if you're not prepared to adapt those principles in the face of adversity then you will be worked out and you will eventually fail (as AVB showed).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of course, what's your point though? Mine is that every system will have weaknesses. It's the Rafa Benitez short blanket theory. Working on any system to give strengths will always leave weaknesses somewhere else. Whether it's Barca or Swansea. All we can ask is that this system helps us perform better than the sum of our parts would suggest that we can.

I agree with your point. My point is that a rigid style of play that never changes will eventually be worked out and countered. I am happy that our new manager has a preferred style of play and that if the players train properly and take onboard his ideas then they will become better. However I also hope that our coach is prepared to change his tactics in the event that he comes up against an opponent who are either:

a) set up with a very style to counter our tactics
or
b) having the better of the game against us and looking likely that they are going to win.

If the manager is not prepared to change things to suit the situation then I think he will fail.

 

[scaramanga]

Sorry to break our vow, but I have to here…did you? Really? When? I'd appreciate a refresher, because what I DO remember, is that you said very recently he 'wasn't coming' and that people 'shouldn't believe' the ITK.

I mean look, at the end of the day it's not important, we're ALL Spurs supporters who want the best for our beloved, but I know you have high standards on these things thus I feel compelled to ask.

I said from the first time he was linked it would not be Poch:lol:...was so obvious.

Yes i think it will be De Boer but i cling on to my Rafa hope (although i put a lot of ££££ on De Boer at 6's).

He ain't coming here...get it out your head mate and don't be fooled by all these posts saying he's here.

:-k

 

[braineclipse]

I am not saying that pressing/a high line is "easily exposed by knocking long balls" what I am saying is that a high line potentially gives the opposition a large target to hit to get a ball in behind for a player with pace to run onto and be one on one with the keeper (which is what Chelsea were trying to do). As I said before, it was clear that Chelsea were purposely targeting the huge space in behind our back 4. It was only a lack of quality in their balls in behind us that caused their failure, I can remember several heart attack moments in the first half where they had a fantastic position only to not take advantage due to the ball in behind being poorly executed. I thought we were lucky rather than tactically astute.

The point I made about a team playing long ball to counter Pochettino's tactics did not refer to a team like Chelsea who would want to win the game, but more to a team like West Ham who would be perfectly happy with a nil nil. The point being that if the opposition gets the ball forward early and long then they are very unlikely to turn over possession in a dangerous area and thus negate our chances to score.

If the opposition are clearly hitting it long every time then I would hope that Pochettino would reshape the team so we're not looking to press high up the pitch - as there would simply be nothing to press.

It's fine, I would even go as far as good, to have pure footballing principles, but if you're not prepared to adapt those principles in the face of adversity then you will be worked out and you will eventually fail (as AVB showed).

Part of the goal when pressing high is to force opponents into long balls that you should then win most of the time, thus winning possession. If you can do that with 1-2 players you do it with two players, no need to commit 4. If they're just going to launch it forward from the goalie regardless of what you do you obviously don't push your team up to their box with 3 players in offside. Pretty basic stuff, I'm sure Poch gets it.

About parking the bus it was mention in the interview with Schneiderlin in one of the new new manager threads how Southampton had to adjust to doing just that.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I expect 2/3s of teams next year will sit deep against us and try to hit us on the break. I suggest there will be a lot of discussions on here about parked buses and how to counter it. That's where AVB failed and where Poch will have to find a way.
Only having a plan A is fine if you have the best players because you can dominate. If plan A makes you predicable and easy to counter there's no way it'll work.

Agreed. My thoughts are that AVB failed for four reasons.

1. His system did not really stretch play enough. We were often extremely narrow, which allied to our slow build up left no space to exploit.
2. His system was far too much of a safety first keep possession at all costs type system. We rarely tried the difficult (but perhaps chance creating) pass and we also worked our way forward so slowly and methodically that the opposition were able to get everyone back organised behind the ball leading to us eventually having to hit a hopeful shot from outside the area after 5 minutes of solid possession.
3. His centre forward did not want to (or perhaps wasn't told to/didn't know how to) run the channels, which allowed the opposition's central defenders to remain central, not allowing any space/opportunity for one of our midfielders to break into the box and find space in a goalscoring position.
4. As time went on it seemed that he retained the high defensive line but the pressing reduced and eventually became non existant. This allowed the opposition time in possession to pick the easy ball in behind our 2 centre halves.

 

[shaney]

On the plus side, im fairly sure Lennon will be out the door.

 

[diego_maradona]

On the plus side, im fairly sure Lennon will be out the door.

Or we will see him used effectively by a competent manager?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Part of the goal when pressing high is to force opponents into long balls that you should then win most of the time, thus winning possession. If you can do that with 1-2 players you do it with two players, no need to commit 4. If they're just going to launch it forward from the goalie regardless of what you do you obviously don't push your team up to their box with 3 players in offside. Pretty basic stuff, I'm sure Poch gets it.

About parking the bus it was mention in the interview with Schneiderlin in one of the new new manager threads how Southampton had to adjust to doing just that.

I hope so.... I'd like to see their two games against West Ham last season and perhaps their fans comments about those games however as that may give a good indication.

I also think that in general Southampton are far less likely to come up against teams parking the bus compared to Spurs. A point home or away to Spurs is a good result for a majority of teams in the Premier League, whereas most teams will be wanting to beat Southampton at home at least.

 

[Kingdawson]

:-k

You took my post seriously? oh dear.