Lucas Moura

[AdamB]

I think if Bale continues anywhere close to the form he is, we have to keep him for next season as well (question: are we fully in control of that situation?)

It's tough to know who to shift as they all have their pluses and some (Lucas, Lamela) are certainly showing it at the moment.

Lucas and Lamela have a natural tendancy to work as part of their game but can bring flair too.
Bergwijn works hard but I feel it is to the detriment to his flair and teamplay that I think he is very capable of. He's young as well, so has potentially longer service ahead of him.
If Dele comes good, and there is a chance he will if he plays in his very best (niche) position ghosting around the outer areas of the box, then he'll add what he did in his prime (15+goals), he's still a good age as well. If he doesn't then he'd be an option to sell as I think we'd still get good money for him. (And we are going to need incoming funds)
The main 3 pick themselves when fit, so we'd are only left with one place (or zero places if we went 433)...so a trim is likely and sensible. Value,age, and contract length may well be deciding factors.

I sincerely hope we never go 4-3-3 again, at least with anything similar to the current personnel. We've become far more dangerous since we went 4-2-3-1. Back on topic:

Backtracking on my post to which you replied, perhaps we actually are ok for bodies. For the 3 positions behind the CF in a 4-2-3-1, we'd want 6 players:
- Bale and Son are first choice
- Bergwijn stays because of age and potential
- Dele, if he returns to form, stays as he's been excellent previously in the no 10 role and we're now playing 4-2-3-1 again which suits him far better than 4-3-3
- which leaves Lamela and Moura for the 5th and 6th spots .

If we consider TN and GLC as CMs then we probably are ok with the above in terms of numbers. Question is then about age, HG vs Non HG and blend of type of player

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I sincerely hope we never go 4-3-3 again, at least with anything similar to the current personnel. We've become far more dangerous since we went 4-2-3-1. Back on topic:

Imo we have the perfect 3 in Lo Celso PEH Ndombele to.play 433 with the Holy trinity in front of them. That negates the need to find who deserves to be the no.10 in 4231.

Also, although he has done really well doing what he's being asked to do in the double pivot with PEH, Ndombele's attacking input has declined, I'm not saying he is doing nothing BUT he has legitimate world class skills when bursting thru the lines, no look or eye of the needle passes, basically skills very few have and they are being kept in the locker at the moment. Obviously the other members of the team have stepped up on the attacking front so it's no big issue at the moment but a 433 might give him (and Lo Celso) a license to connect the back to front utilising all the best skills they have. I think both would prefer seeing the pitch in front of them.

FwIw I don't see a formation change this season...not at this stage.

 

[Raziel]

I sincerely hope we never go 4-3-3 again, at least with anything similar to the current personnel. We've become far more dangerous since we went 4-2-3-1. Back on topic:

Backtracking on my post to which you replied, perhaps we actually are ok for bodies. For the 3 positions behind the CF in a 4-2-3-1, we'd want 6 players:
- Bale and Son are first choice
- Bergwijn stays because of age and potential
- Dele, if he returns to form, stays as he's been excellent previously in the no 10 role and we're now playing 4-2-3-1 again which suits him far better than 4-3-3
- which leaves Lamela and Moura for the 5th and 6th spots .

If we consider TN and GLC as CMs then we probably are ok with the above in terms of numbers. Question is then about age, HG vs Non HG and blend of type of player

Unfortunately you have to apply a few more types of reality

- Dele is the asset most likely to get us significant money, he's also player most likely to be unhappy with rotation
- I think the ideal is likely to be PEH, Ndombele, Lo Celso
- You have a lot of games, cups, rotation needed
- Lamela and Lucas bring something different to team plus will be less difficult to manage as squad players

Honestly unless someone pushes for it, I'd expect Lucas and Lamela to be here next season. Dele is probably dependent on if Poch keeps his job at PSG (him and Lloris)
Sissko and Winks are gone

 

[AdamB]

Dele is the asset most likely to get us significant money, he's also player most likely to be unhappy with rotation

He won't be rotated much if he's back on form, and if we got rid of him we'd compound our HG player issue. I think if he has reasonable involvement for the rest of the year, he'll give it another season

Sissko and Winks are gone

In the SKipp thread you wanted him loaned out - who would you keep as CMs? I think you need 5 CMs...and I'd have PEH, GLC, TN, and then two of Winks, Sissoko and Skipp, depending on takers for Winks and Sissoko and what we want to do with loaning Skipp

I don't see us doing a huge number of deals next summer either

- You have a lot of games, cups, rotation needed
- Lamela and Lucas bring something different to team plus will be less difficult to manage as squad players

I completely agree, hence saying we need 6 players for the roles behind the CF in a 4-2-3-1. If we were going to bring in someone in those attacking roles though, by process of elimination Lucas and Lamela would be the ones I'd look to shift. That said, I think they'll be hard to move out due to all the usual dynamics. We'll be starting to build up a large overhaul in those positions soon though....which means a large outlay to replace them given that by next summer Moura, Son, Lamela will all be 30, Bale will be 32

 

[Raziel]

He won't be rotated much if he's back on form, and if we got rid of him we'd compound our HG player issue. I think if he has reasonable involvement for the rest of the year, he'll give it another season


In the SKipp thread you wanted him loaned out - who would you keep as CMs? I think you need 5 CMs...and I'd have PEH, GLC, TN, and then two of Winks, Sissoko and Skipp, depending on takers for Winks and Sissoko and what we want to do with loaning Skipp

I don't see us doing a huge number of deals next summer either



I completely agree, hence saying we need 6 players for the roles behind the CF in a 4-2-3-1. If we were going to bring in someone in those attacking roles though, by process of elimination Lucas and Lamela would be the ones I'd look to shift. That said, I think they'll be hard to move out due to all the usual dynamics. We'll be starting to build up a large overhaul in those positions soon though....which means a large outlay to replace them given that by next summer Moura, Son, Lamela will all be 30, Bale will be 32

Realistic perspective

- Extend Bale's loan, keep Lucas, Lamela, Bergwijn -> zero net new cost
- Rose (released), CCV, Dier, Sissoko, Winks out (two foreign player slots freed up)
- Bring back Sessegnon, leave Skipp on loan (Sess is HG)
- Lloris & Dele depends on the offers from PSG, good enough money -> both go (Lloris frees up a foreign player spot)
- Negociate Vini down to an acceptable price

6-8 out, at 8 you free up 3 foreign player slots

Spend on
- Top level CB
- PEH rotation option (while Skipp is an idea, he's probably better off developing for another year and we may want to play Skipp & PEH at some point)
- Keeper if Lloris goes or even as planning for following summer

6-8 out this summer, only 3 in (doable in covid affected world), minimum change, address the weak spots, kick on

following summer will likely be big as well (hopefully revenue streams back to normal by then)

 

[AdamB]

Realistic perspective

- Extend Bale's loan, keep Lucas, Lamela, Bergwijn -> zero net new cost
- Rose (released), CCV, Dier, Sissoko, Winks out (two foreign player slots freed up)
- Bring back Sessegnon, leave Skipp on loan (Sess is HG)
- Lloris & Dele depends on the offers from PSG, good enough money -> both go (Lloris frees up a foreign player spot)
- Negociate Vini down to an acceptable price

6-8 out, at 8 you free up 3 foreign player slots

Spend on
- Top level CB
- PEH rotation option (while Skipp is an idea, he's probably better off developing for another year and we may want to play Skipp & PEH at some point)
- Keeper if Lloris goes or even as planning for following summer

6-8 out this summer, only 3 in (doable in covid affected world), minimum change, address the weak spots, kick on

following summer will likely be big as well (hopefully revenue streams back to normal by then)

Maybe. Its difficult to gauge what we might spend next summer given covid. You're probably suggesting £80m spend (excl keeper and Dele sale/replacements) with £40m on CB, £20m on a CM and £20m on Vini, and get in say £50m for Dier (£20m), Winks (£20m) and Sissoko (£10m)? Prices will be lower this summer so hard o calibrate but Winks out and replacement I could imagine being similar prices, and a top up and coming CB being £20m more than Dier

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Maybe. Its difficult to gauge what we might spend next summer given covid. You're probably suggesting £80m spend (excl keeper and Dele sale/replacements) with £40m on CB, £20m on a CM and £20m on Vini, and get in say £50m for Dier (£20m), Winks (£20m) and Sissoko (£10m)? Prices will be lower this summer so hard o calibrate but Winks out and replacement I could imagine being similar prices, and a top up and coming CB being £20m more than Dier

I had a panic there thinking you said £50m for Dier...

 

[afsoc4life]

Played a key role vs Palace that also had me looking forward to Lo Celso coming back. Lucas played with a bit of the panache that made him one of the world's most sought youngsters earlier in his career .. albeit when he had hair.

 

[Raziel]

Played a key role vs Palace that also had me looking forward to Lo Celso coming back. Lucas played with a bit of the panache that made him one of the world's most sought youngsters earlier in his career .. albeit when he had hair.

Interestingly earlier in his career he played more centrally as well.

I do think being able to rotate/tweak Lucas/Dele/Lo Celso/Lamela gives interesting options, also allows more fresh legs

 

[Gazza]

How things have changed ... he polarizes opinions from one week to the next ... i think that says it all, if he can be consistent we could have a real game changer on our hands.

Exciting times really compared to a few weeks ago when it was all doom and gloom, Mourinho out, Bale out, Lucas out, Lamela out, Alli out etc ... just shows sometimes we need to all sit back and chill out a bit.

 

[parklane1]

Thought he was great against Palace, defenders hate playing against players who run at them (with pace) and he did that all game.

 

[Caitano]

 

[Finney Is Back]

Maybe. Its difficult to gauge what we might spend next summer given covid. You're probably suggesting £80m spend (excl keeper and Dele sale/replacements) with £40m on CB, £20m on a CM and £20m on Vini, and get in say £50m for Dier (£20m), Winks (£20m) and Sissoko (£10m)? Prices will be lower this summer so hard o calibrate but Winks out and replacement I could imagine being similar prices, and a top up and coming CB being £20m more than Dier

I think a bunch of the CB’s I listed with just a year left on their contracts in the transfer thread would be gettable for around £20m.

 

[braineclipse]

Thought he was great against Palace, defenders hate playing against players who run at them (with pace) and he did that all game.

Unless they continually run into blind alleys, I think defenders love that.

Moura on form has that great ability to just get past people, sometimes in situations that look lost. That burst of acceleration he has really is special and he knows how to use it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Unless they continually run into blind alleys, I think defenders love that.

Moura on form has that great ability to just get past people, sometimes in situations that look lost. That burst of acceleration he has really is special and he knows how to use it.

I think there are more blind alleys out wide than centrally. As a defender the touchline and corner area are your friend, it forms a restriction. Luckily (for us) Moura has ended up central and not only does that give Moura options to dart left or right (in the manner you suggest) but defenders will be feeling the pressure of a direct assault on their goal. Because of the immediacy of the problem it creates panic, and in the background, space and opportunities for the real killers.

 

[braineclipse]

I think there are more blind alleys out wide than centrally. As a defender the touchline and corner area are your friend, it forms a restriction. Luckily (for us) Moura has ended up central and not only does that give Moura options to dart left or right (in the manner you suggest) but defenders will be feeling the pressure of a direct assault on their goal. Because of the immediacy of the problem it creates panic, and in the background, space and opportunities for the real killers.

Yeah, Lucas is a bit of a generator of chaos. Generating that in the centre with no real safe side for the defender to guide him into might be a good idea.

He's also not the best crosser around so having him centrally doesn't really negate any key aspects of his game I think.

Edit: Just to add. That #10 role roaming around Kane who has so much quality, attracts attention and is just overall excellent does make for a rather favorable position to be in for a lot of players. Perhaps that gets the best out of Lucas.

Will be interesting to see if he can find consistency going forward.

 

[Raziel]

Yeah, Lucas is a bit of a generator of chaos. Generating that in the centre with no real safe side for the defender to guide him into might be a good idea.

He's also not the best crosser around so having him centrally doesn't really negate any key aspects of his game I think.

Edit: Just to add. That #10 role roaming around Kane who has so much quality, attracts attention and is just overall excellent does make for a rather favorable position to be in for a lot of players. Perhaps that gets the best out of Lucas.

Will be interesting to see if he can find consistency going forward.

I think it's part Lucas (he certainly has some attributes, being direct and relentless pressing are a big part) and part the system changes.

- In a lot of ways, Spurs 4-2-3-1 -ish model has been consistent for some time, with FB's often going forward and providing width, a DM that can drop, etc.
- What we have been trying to do (I think) for some time is replace Eriksen (even before he left)
- Earlier in season we did that by having Kane drop deep
- Now we have gone for a ball carrier (Lucas or Lamela), pushing Kane a little higher, + Bale's form and we look a lot more effective.

I think you could swap Lucas/Lamela/Lo Celso (although I wonder if we use Lo Celso right to rotate with Bale, he had a couple of decent games there earlier)/Dele in that slot, each would give you something slightly different but the system would be similar.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeah, Lucas is a bit of a generator of chaos. Generating that in the centre with no real safe side for the defender to guide him into might be a good idea.

He's also not the best crosser around so having him centrally doesn't really negate any key aspects of his game I think.

Edit: Just to add. That #10 role roaming around Kane who has so much quality, attracts attention and is just overall excellent does make for a rather favorable position to be in for a lot of players. Perhaps that gets the best out of Lucas.

Will be interesting to see if he can find consistency going forward.

Ironically the no.10 spot opening up looks to be working out well as I think it is the best position for Moura/Lamela/Dele, that's a lot of options.

Particularly for Dele, although he's played the 10 role in other games recently, I thought against Fulham he was deployed/instructed to play it in the way he did during his very best periods with us. It's a niche position, ghosting around the final 30 ydsof the pitch between the penalty box lines is where he comes alive. This tactic has actually been enhanced by Kane's actions of dropping, it's like they can play the switcheroo at will.
I simply don't want Dele anywhere near PEH, Ndombele or out wide, it's where the Dele dally shows up and I think we are (or should be) about pace and speed of thought now, and Dele ain't that in those areas.

 

[billyiddo]

Ironically the no.10 spot opening up looks to be working out well as I think it is the best position for Moura/Lamela/Dele, that's a lot of options.

Particularly for Dele, although he's played the 10 role in other games recently, I thought against Fulham he was deployed/instructed to play it in the way he did during his very best periods with us. It's a niche position, ghosting around the final 30 ydsof the pitch between the pelanty box lines is where he comes alive. This tactic has actually been enhanced by Kane's actions of dropping, it's like they can play the switcheroo at will.
I simply don't want Dele anywhere near PEH, Ndombele or out wide, it's where the Dele dally shows up and I think we are (or should be) about pace and speed of thought now, and Dele ain't that in those areas.

would love to see Dele in there as his natural game would certainly suit that position/role - going to have to bide his time if Moura is playing how he is, i suspect he'll get the nod in the Europa games so a chance to show what he can do

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

would love to see Dele in there as his natural game would certainly suit that position/role - going to have to bide his time if Moura is playing how he is, i suspect he'll get the nod in the Europa games so a chance to show what he can do

I think if Jose likes one of the front four to do defensive work as well, that would favour Moura or Lamela.

I'm not saying Dele can't do a defensive shift BUT those two are like rabid animals.