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Juande Ramos

Gutter Boy said:
Steff has suggested before that he had some big personal crisis (financial IIRC) going on back home at that time that distracted him. That and Poyet's meddling. I think Bentley, Woodgate and the ketchup boys were knobs too.

That's the best explanation I've heard anyway
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rubbish

tbh i can expect that from you two and the other guy.

and much worse
 
veron23 said:
hmm. Did we tactically do anything different?

I just always wondered how we went from the Chelsea and UTD performances looking really difficult to beat into relegation form?

My only theory that made sense to me was he was too much of a disciplinarian which only worked for a while but inevitably sooner or later turned the players against him.
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He played players in wrong positions and got it totally wrong. Could motivate the team in 'big games' but our performances and results against lesser teams was abysmal.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Steff has suggested before that he had some big personal crisis (financial IIRC) going on back home at that time that distracted him. That and Poyet's meddling. I think Bentley, Woodgate and the ketchup boys were knobs too.

That's the best explanation I've heard anyway
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Everyones fault but the foreign manager....why am i not surprised :ross:
 
After the cup win, we were total rubbish and the players simply switched off and went in holiday mode. To this day it still does my head in, that Ramos continued to pick these same players, week in, week out, even though a lot of them were out of form / could'nt be bothered. Either way, at least 4 should have been dropped, but he simply did nothing.

It was a perfect time to blood or try out new hungry players, in preperation for the following season. I remember at the time fearing that our woeful league form would continue the next season, and thats exactly what happened.
 
braineclipse said:
From what I remember a combination of a lot of factors, some that had started previously. We had a terrible run-in in the league after the league cup win iirc.

Some factors I think contributed:

-Ramos was pretty extreme on fitness and health. The "took away the ketchup" stories seem petty, but I think it illustrates the situation. I think we had a lot of players that just weren't up for, used to or motivated for that kind of dedication as footballers. As a result I think the players didn't respond 100% to his instructions and this contributed to his downfall.

-Our transfer dealings. I think Berbatov covered up a lot of faults during his time with us, he was extreme. Midfield passing didn't work? Hoof it to Berba and he could make it stick. Goals from nowhere, assists from nowhere and so on. I think this was true both for Ramos and Jol btw. In addition Berbatov and Keane was a very good strike partnership. We essentially replaced that with clearly inferior players that in addition couldn't form a partnership for the life of them. Not only did we no longer have the magic, we no longer had a functioning attacking force.

-Other imbalances in our squad. Primarily the lack of a defensive midfielder, something we'd struggled with since Carrick left. Zokora was no replacement. Again I think the majestic awesomeness that was Ledley King covered for this to some extent at times previously. But it was a glaring problem in our squad and one our manager and DoF failed to rectify.

-I'm not sure Ramos ever managed to find a team that worked in that 2 from 8 season. He was chopping and changing from game to game. Probably as a result of the previous factors I mentioned, but he just couldn't find something that worked, at all.

I agree with you that he looked promising, the league cup win was obviously a huge positive. I also think that some of the ideas he tried to implement, like higher fitness levels and better nutrition were good ideas. He just didn't find the right way to implement them, or the right players to work with perhaps. In a different universe, where it didn't all implode as spectacularly, perhaps it would have worked over time. I always thought that he was influential in making Tom Huddlestone the player he became by slimming him down and making him a bit more mobile for example.
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Great post, and I will add what Gutter Boy referenced as major factors too...I cannot imagine (either) what it must've been like to sign Modric thinking that perhaps Berba and definitely Keane would be staying, only to lose both.
 
braineclipse said:
From what I remember a combination of a lot of factors, some that had started previously. We had a terrible run-in in the league after the league cup win iirc.

Some factors I think contributed:

-Ramos was pretty extreme on fitness and health. The "took away the ketchup" stories seem petty, but I think it illustrates the situation. I think we had a lot of players that just weren't up for, used to or motivated for that kind of dedication as footballers. As a result I think the players didn't respond 100% to his instructions and this contributed to his downfall.

-Our transfer dealings. I think Berbatov covered up a lot of faults during his time with us, he was extreme. Midfield passing didn't work? Hoof it to Berba and he could make it stick. Goals from nowhere, assists from nowhere and so on. I think this was true both for Ramos and Jol btw. In addition Berbatov and Keane was a very good strike partnership. We essentially replaced that with clearly inferior players that in addition couldn't form a partnership for the life of them. Not only did we no longer have the magic, we no longer had a functioning attacking force.

-Other imbalances in our squad. Primarily the lack of a defensive midfielder, something we'd struggled with since Carrick left. Zokora was no replacement. Again I think the majestic awesomeness that was Ledley King covered for this to some extent at times previously. But it was a glaring problem in our squad and one our manager and DoF failed to rectify.

-I'm not sure Ramos ever managed to find a team that worked in that 2 from 8 season. He was chopping and changing from game to game. Probably as a result of the previous factors I mentioned, but he just couldn't find something that worked, at all.

I agree with you that he looked promising, the league cup win was obviously a huge positive. I also think that some of the ideas he tried to implement, like higher fitness levels and better nutrition were good ideas. He just didn't find the right way to implement them, or the right players to work with perhaps. In a different universe, where it didn't all implode as spectacularly, perhaps it would have worked over time. I always thought that he was influential in making Tom Huddlestone the player he became by slimming him down and making him a bit more mobile for example.
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I agree with all of that, but in addition I have always suspected that by he wanted to get sacked. I felt he was getting homesick and desperately wanted a way out without having to resign. His team selections, substitutions and general team set out were so scandalously wrong that I can think of no other plausible explanation to justify them.
 
Pirate55 said:
I agree with all of that, but in addition I have always suspected that by he wanted to get sacked. I felt he was getting homesick and desperately wanted a way out without having to resign. His team selections, substitutions and general team set out were so scandalously wrong that I can think of no other plausible explanation to justify them.
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is it possible that AVB did the same in the last few matches with us? i mean he had no shortage of suitors over the summer, and it didn't take him long to land another job.
 
Another comparison with this year is the large turnover of players. In the Jan and Summer windows we bought and sold an entire team at around £100m each, including the sales of a top striker partnership. When you look at the beginning of this season, the lack of scoring could have produced a similar start if the defence hadn't been so effective (what happened to it?) and Soldado was more versed in our penalty-taking traditions.
 
Another thing I forgot to ask

What happened to David Bentley?????????????

How did he go from 8 goals 13 assists at Blackburn to non existence at Spurs. I know Lennon was in form back then but
 
veron23 said:
Another thing I forgot to ask

What happened to David Bentley?????????????

How did he go from 8 goals 13 assists at Blackburn to non existence at Spurs. I know Lennon was in form back then but
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Still hasn't found a club since leaving us on a free in the summer. Saw a few days ago that he is living in Spain and says he doesn't miss his playing days! Mercenary of a player
 
Pirate55 said:
I agree with all of that, but in addition I have always suspected that by he wanted to get sacked. I felt he was getting homesick and desperately wanted a way out without having to resign. His team selections, substitutions and general team set out were so scandalously wrong that I can think of no other plausible explanation to justify them.
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Sorry but I just refuse to believe a professional manager would do that....
 
Ramos is a real legend for turning a team which is jinxed forever like Spurs into a Cup winner in 2008. That win over Chelsea in the Final looks even more special now.

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It looks like it will be our only Cup win for some time. We have now lost 3 of our last 4 League Cup finals, had lost our last 6 FA Cup semi finals and hardly convincing in Europe. Not sure when we will win another Cup again.

Guess will have to watch that 2008 Cup win video over and over again to get the feeling of being called Champions ! Thanks for that sweet memory Ramos !
 
I think we really should consider having 2 head coaches, 1 for the league and 1 for the Cups. Ramos was so good in the Cups but struggled in the league. Redknapp, AVB, Sherwood and Pochettino were good in the league but shyte in the Cups. It seems we cannot get a coach who can be good in all competitions.
 
Spurs7891 said:
Ramos is a real legend for turning a team which is jinxed forever like Spurs....


It looks like it will be our only Cup win for some time. We have now lost 3 of our last 4 League Cup finals, had lost our last 6 FA Cup semi finals and hardly convincing in Europe. Not sure when we will win another Cup again.
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1) He did it with Jol's squad
2) 2 League Cup finals since, 2 FA cup semi finals since. Hardly a club a million miles from a trophy. If you want a club like that go support West Ham.
 
mjc23 said:
I wouldn't say getting to a final in your first season is being shyte in the cups!
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Spot on! And to lose against what looks the best team in the league, and arguably the only team in the league that's enough of a cup team to do well in the Champions League.

I'm assuming 7891's comments must be a result of the immediate disappointment after the game. If not the expectations are just ridiculous.
 
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